Tuesday, December 15, 2009
Friday, December 11, 2009
Sickness And Diarrhoea Bug Dec 2009
X-masing colleagues
At Christmas we are all good and our dear colleagues we can imagine them all in the 'parade' of typical characters ... Father Christmas, the Epiphany, Saint Lucia, the characters of the crib, Kings Magi, some snowman, a comet, all possible pendaglini tree, pine cones and bells included.
But beware: this imaginary flight is permitted only in the office, outside the mind is free and you do not think anymore! 
At Christmas we are all good and our dear colleagues we can imagine them all in the 'parade' of typical characters ... Father Christmas, the Epiphany, Saint Lucia, the characters of the crib, Kings Magi, some snowman, a comet, all possible pendaglini tree, pine cones and bells included. Wednesday, December 9, 2009
Kate's Playground Filmpjes
Birthdaying
Need someone who will celebrate a bit, 'express friendship, esteem and sympathy? Change your birthday on facebook at the date of today (or tomorrow if you can wait) and enjoy the good wishes and gifts from your friends.
Finally thanks to all with a 'thank you, I really needed it!', So even your little lie will be forgiven! 
Need someone who will celebrate a bit, 'express friendship, esteem and sympathy? Change your birthday on facebook at the date of today (or tomorrow if you can wait) and enjoy the good wishes and gifts from your friends. Sunday, December 6, 2009
Saturday, November 21, 2009
Metalcore Scooter Eagle
Take the time to downstairs
You get off the ground floor, do not choose the elevator! Enjoy the descent of the stairs, if you're not on a skyscraper takes no more time, you stretch and get more space around. 
You get off the ground floor, do not choose the elevator! Enjoy the descent of the stairs, if you're not on a skyscraper takes no more time, you stretch and get more space around. Friday, November 6, 2009
Gay Cruising Spots Kl
Ciambelline di salvataggio
Fall ... take left by that great desire to just stand in the warmth of home and a cup of tea in the English style with a saucer over the donuts Ilaria, the ones that you always turn the child stamped on ' timeless bag! 
Fall ... take left by that great desire to just stand in the warmth of home and a cup of tea in the English style with a saucer over the donuts Ilaria, the ones that you always turn the child stamped on ' timeless bag! Thursday, November 5, 2009
Flucillin Chest Infection
OhMySunning
In fact you never straight, is the song, and as soon as you hear the first notes looking for an excuse to escape. From now on, you can do! Enjoy this version , style Green Day, and Join the club of admirers of''stainfronteatteeee '. 
In fact you never straight, is the song, and as soon as you hear the first notes looking for an excuse to escape. From now on, you can do! Enjoy this version , style Green Day, and Join the club of admirers of''stainfronteatteeee '. Tuesday, October 13, 2009
Thursday, August 6, 2009
Pokemon Soul Silver Cheats R4
Shadows of Medjugorje: the Pope is reduced to the lay state
Shadows of Medjugorje: the Pope is reduced to the lay state Father Tomislav Vlasic, the spiritual leader of the 'seers' accused of heresy, manipulation of consciences and violation of the Sixth Commandment
CITY' OF THE VATICAN - leaves the scene , carrying the threat of excommunication by the Pope and the infamous accusations of heresy, manipulation of consciences, suspicious mysticism, and even to have had sex with a nun, a Franciscan Tomislav Vlasic, who in 1981 gave rise to the phenomenon of Medjugorje in their capacity of 'spiritual father' of the six kids who suddenly began to report daily to see Madonna. Vlasic did not wait to be excommunicated and has played up front: has formally resigned in March, although the news and 'leaked just recently. A blow to the image of Medjugorje, a village forgotten hills of Herzegovina, which became the beginning of the eighties one of the most Marian sites 'popular in the world, a magnet for millions of devotees who go there in spite of the Church' s has never recognized as a venue for events''supernatural.'' Indeed, the Vatican has always looked askance at those Marian apparitions so 'on time, every day at 17.00, which still continue, at least to hear the stories of the visionaries, grown up and scattered all over the world: more' than 40 thousand views and not ''Seem to have no end,''as I look ', in a visit to the Vatican in 2006 in Limington, the current bishop of the diocese, that of Mostar, Bishop Ratko Peric. The allegations made by Pope Benedict XVI, through the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, against the 'spiritual father' of the great mystical phenomenon, are therefore very serious''Diffusion of dubious doctrine, manipulation of consciences, suspicious mysticism, disobedience toward legitimately orders constituted and acts against the 'sextum' (against the Sixth Commandment).'' To make them even more 'dark and there' a phrase that Ratzinger's former department has the flavor of a decision: the sins of which 'the friar accused were committed''in the context of the phenomenon Medjugorje.'' With the departure of Vlasic, Medjugorje closes another chapter in its history, marked by success on believers and the fascination and suspicion generated in the apparatus of the Church. Gia 'in the beginning, then the diocesan bishop, the late Bishop Pavao Zanic, accuse' Vlasic and other Franciscans to be impostors: the Madonna, in her apparitions to the children, never failed to criticize the conduct of the authorities' local church and instead of exalting the deeds of the friars who, from their convent, ran pilgrimages. In 1984, while in Medjugorje flourished religious tourism, Vlasic took pen and paper to celebrate itself with Pope John Paul II as one who, through the''Divine Providence guides the seers.'' The Church sent 'in those years, three committees on the spot, who could not find any support for claims on daily meetings with the Madonna, the bishops of Yugoslavia in 1991 enacted that no one could speak of''supernatural apparitions or revelations.'' So far, the phenomena of Medjugorje''under review''. In 1985, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, forbade 'any official pilgrimage, the diocesan or parish religious site. I leave 'but the freedom' to individual Catholics to travel to Medjugorje in the company of priests. He became Pope Benedict then went on the investigation until a final verdict against the great director Last Balkan epic mystical. The nth stage of a story with too many obscure points, the alleged inconsistency of the theological messages that the Virgin would rely upon the 'seers', the turnover of 'suspect' that concern since the early eighties the small town in Bosnia and Herzegovina. For skeptics, Medjugorje and 'a whole mount, an invention of the six' seers ', for those who believe in the apparitions, and not just' all true, but sooner or later should be even revealed some of the secrets entrusted to the Virgin Mary to the group of 'mystical'. Cosi ', between' hawks 'and' doves ', continues the battle authenticity' of the apparitions, pending the final decision of the Vatican. Meanwhile, as you can ' note from the interview made a year ago and revived in the area of \u200b\u200bthis newspaper, even those like Father Rene Laurentin, one of the most important mariologists the world, was inclined to believe the veracity of the Medjugorje phenomenon, now moves a few steps back.
http://www.papanews.it/news.asp?IdNews=12738 
Shadows of Medjugorje: the Pope is reduced to the lay state Father Tomislav Vlasic, the spiritual leader of the 'seers' accused of heresy, manipulation of consciences and violation of the Sixth Commandment
CITY' OF THE VATICAN - leaves the scene , carrying the threat of excommunication by the Pope and the infamous accusations of heresy, manipulation of consciences, suspicious mysticism, and even to have had sex with a nun, a Franciscan Tomislav Vlasic, who in 1981 gave rise to the phenomenon of Medjugorje in their capacity of 'spiritual father' of the six kids who suddenly began to report daily to see Madonna. Vlasic did not wait to be excommunicated and has played up front: has formally resigned in March, although the news and 'leaked just recently. A blow to the image of Medjugorje, a village forgotten hills of Herzegovina, which became the beginning of the eighties one of the most Marian sites 'popular in the world, a magnet for millions of devotees who go there in spite of the Church' s has never recognized as a venue for events''supernatural.'' Indeed, the Vatican has always looked askance at those Marian apparitions so 'on time, every day at 17.00, which still continue, at least to hear the stories of the visionaries, grown up and scattered all over the world: more' than 40 thousand views and not ''Seem to have no end,''as I look ', in a visit to the Vatican in 2006 in Limington, the current bishop of the diocese, that of Mostar, Bishop Ratko Peric. The allegations made by Pope Benedict XVI, through the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, against the 'spiritual father' of the great mystical phenomenon, are therefore very serious''Diffusion of dubious doctrine, manipulation of consciences, suspicious mysticism, disobedience toward legitimately orders constituted and acts against the 'sextum' (against the Sixth Commandment).'' To make them even more 'dark and there' a phrase that Ratzinger's former department has the flavor of a decision: the sins of which 'the friar accused were committed''in the context of the phenomenon Medjugorje.'' With the departure of Vlasic, Medjugorje closes another chapter in its history, marked by success on believers and the fascination and suspicion generated in the apparatus of the Church. Gia 'in the beginning, then the diocesan bishop, the late Bishop Pavao Zanic, accuse' Vlasic and other Franciscans to be impostors: the Madonna, in her apparitions to the children, never failed to criticize the conduct of the authorities' local church and instead of exalting the deeds of the friars who, from their convent, ran pilgrimages. In 1984, while in Medjugorje flourished religious tourism, Vlasic took pen and paper to celebrate itself with Pope John Paul II as one who, through the''Divine Providence guides the seers.'' The Church sent 'in those years, three committees on the spot, who could not find any support for claims on daily meetings with the Madonna, the bishops of Yugoslavia in 1991 enacted that no one could speak of''supernatural apparitions or revelations.'' So far, the phenomena of Medjugorje''under review''. In 1985, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, forbade 'any official pilgrimage, the diocesan or parish religious site. I leave 'but the freedom' to individual Catholics to travel to Medjugorje in the company of priests. He became Pope Benedict then went on the investigation until a final verdict against the great director Last Balkan epic mystical. The nth stage of a story with too many obscure points, the alleged inconsistency of the theological messages that the Virgin would rely upon the 'seers', the turnover of 'suspect' that concern since the early eighties the small town in Bosnia and Herzegovina. For skeptics, Medjugorje and 'a whole mount, an invention of the six' seers ', for those who believe in the apparitions, and not just' all true, but sooner or later should be even revealed some of the secrets entrusted to the Virgin Mary to the group of 'mystical'. Cosi ', between' hawks 'and' doves ', continues the battle authenticity' of the apparitions, pending the final decision of the Vatican. Meanwhile, as you can ' note from the interview made a year ago and revived in the area of \u200b\u200bthis newspaper, even those like Father Rene Laurentin, one of the most important mariologists the world, was inclined to believe the veracity of the Medjugorje phenomenon, now moves a few steps back.
http://www.papanews.it/news.asp?IdNews=12738
Wednesday, June 3, 2009
Where Can You Buy A Firestone In Pokemon Deluge?
Father Tomislav Vlasic Medjugorje from SITE NOSTRASIGNORADILOURDES
Medjugorje Medjugorje: Pope began the biggest crackdown on illegal Catholic shrine in the world with the suspension of the priest at the center of allegations that the Virgin Mary would appear more than 40000 times.
Benedict XVI has authorized 'harsh disciplinary measures and cautions' against Father Tomislav Vlasic, the former 'spiritual director' to six children who claimed that Madonna would they appeared in Medjugorje, in Bosnia.
The Franciscan priest has been suspended after refusing to cooperate in the allegations of scandalous sexual immorality 'aggravated by mystical motivations'. E 'was also accused of "diffusion of dubious doctrine, manipulation of consciences, suspected mysticism and disobedience to orders given legitimately."
Father Vlasic was a central figure in promoting the apparitions that would begin in 1981 and continues today.
boasted in 1984 with John Paul II to be the one 'who through divine providence guides the seers of Medjugorje' and the visionaries themselves said that the Virgin told them that Vlasic was a living saint.
But the Bosnian priest came in second place when it emerged that he had had a child with a nun called Sister Rufina, and has subsequently refused to leave his order to marry her but instead he asked to not report it.
Father Vlasic then moved to Parma, in Italy, where he gave off a mixed religious community of men and women, called the Queen of Peace, which was dedicated to the apparitions of Medjugorje.
Medjugorje has grown to become the most visited shrine Not allowed in the Catholic world, attracting hundreds of thousands of pilgrims every year, including many from the United Kingdom and Ireland.
Local bishops, however, convinced of imposture in 2006 complained directly to Pope Benedict XVI. This kicked off a survey that the Vatican has put the spotlight in the role of Father Vlasic.
The priest was suspended by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith after he refused to cooperate with the investigation into his conduct, 'instead of justifying himself citing his zealous activity' in establishing religious communities and building churches the Medjugorje area.
The decree confirming the his suspension was signed with Pope's approval by Cardinal William Levada, prefect of the CDF, and Father Jose Carballo, Minister General of the Order of Friars Minor.
confines Father Vlasic to a Franciscan monastery in Italy and prevents contact of the Queen of Peace community, or his lawyers without permission from his superior. He was forbidden from making public appearances, preaching and hearing confessions, and must declare a solemn profession of the Catholic faith.
The Vatican has warned Father Vlasic that he will be excommunicated if they violate a prohibition.
The measure had been taken earlier this year, but was made public this week by the Bishop of Mostar, Ratko Peric, at the request of the Vatican to inform the local population of the state of the priest.
Father Vlasic is the second spiritual adviser to the visionaries to be suspended from his ministry. The other, Father Jozo Zovko, was suspended by Bishop Peric in 2004.
represents a huge blow to millions of supporters of Medjugorje in the world who hope that the Vatican investigation into the legitimacy of the Sanctuary.
During the year, Italian Bishop Andrea Gemma denounced the Medjugorje claims about how 'the devil' and he predicted that 'soon the Vatican would intervene with something explosive to expose once and for all who is behind this deceit '.
The phenomenon began on June 25, 1981, when six children - Mirjana Dragicevic, Marija Pavlovic, Vicka Ivankovic, Ivan Dragicevic, Ivanka Ivankovic and Jakov Colo - told a priest they had seen the Virgin on a hillside near their town.
Three Ecclesiastical commissions are not reflected that confirm their claims and the bishops of the former Yugoslavia finally declared that 'could not be said that it was supernatural apparitions or revelations'.
In 1985, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger - now Pope Benedict - banned pilgrimages to the place, but this was largely ignored. Instead the seers have grown economically as a result of their statements - and with them also the country that has prospered thanks to the 'Madonna gold rush'.
Some today own smart executive houses with immaculate gardens, double garage, security gates and one of them has a tennis court.
They also own expensive cars and have married - one of them, Ivan Dragicevic, a former American beauty queen.
http://www.associazionenostrasignoradilourdes.com/content/view/81/1/ 
Medjugorje Medjugorje: Pope began the biggest crackdown on illegal Catholic shrine in the world with the suspension of the priest at the center of allegations that the Virgin Mary would appear more than 40000 times.
Benedict XVI has authorized 'harsh disciplinary measures and cautions' against Father Tomislav Vlasic, the former 'spiritual director' to six children who claimed that Madonna would they appeared in Medjugorje, in Bosnia.
The Franciscan priest has been suspended after refusing to cooperate in the allegations of scandalous sexual immorality 'aggravated by mystical motivations'. E 'was also accused of "diffusion of dubious doctrine, manipulation of consciences, suspected mysticism and disobedience to orders given legitimately."
Father Vlasic was a central figure in promoting the apparitions that would begin in 1981 and continues today.
boasted in 1984 with John Paul II to be the one 'who through divine providence guides the seers of Medjugorje' and the visionaries themselves said that the Virgin told them that Vlasic was a living saint.
But the Bosnian priest came in second place when it emerged that he had had a child with a nun called Sister Rufina, and has subsequently refused to leave his order to marry her but instead he asked to not report it.
Father Vlasic then moved to Parma, in Italy, where he gave off a mixed religious community of men and women, called the Queen of Peace, which was dedicated to the apparitions of Medjugorje.
Medjugorje has grown to become the most visited shrine Not allowed in the Catholic world, attracting hundreds of thousands of pilgrims every year, including many from the United Kingdom and Ireland.
Local bishops, however, convinced of imposture in 2006 complained directly to Pope Benedict XVI. This kicked off a survey that the Vatican has put the spotlight in the role of Father Vlasic.
The priest was suspended by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith after he refused to cooperate with the investigation into his conduct, 'instead of justifying himself citing his zealous activity' in establishing religious communities and building churches the Medjugorje area.
The decree confirming the his suspension was signed with Pope's approval by Cardinal William Levada, prefect of the CDF, and Father Jose Carballo, Minister General of the Order of Friars Minor.
confines Father Vlasic to a Franciscan monastery in Italy and prevents contact of the Queen of Peace community, or his lawyers without permission from his superior. He was forbidden from making public appearances, preaching and hearing confessions, and must declare a solemn profession of the Catholic faith.
The Vatican has warned Father Vlasic that he will be excommunicated if they violate a prohibition.
The measure had been taken earlier this year, but was made public this week by the Bishop of Mostar, Ratko Peric, at the request of the Vatican to inform the local population of the state of the priest.
Father Vlasic is the second spiritual adviser to the visionaries to be suspended from his ministry. The other, Father Jozo Zovko, was suspended by Bishop Peric in 2004.
represents a huge blow to millions of supporters of Medjugorje in the world who hope that the Vatican investigation into the legitimacy of the Sanctuary.
During the year, Italian Bishop Andrea Gemma denounced the Medjugorje claims about how 'the devil' and he predicted that 'soon the Vatican would intervene with something explosive to expose once and for all who is behind this deceit '.
The phenomenon began on June 25, 1981, when six children - Mirjana Dragicevic, Marija Pavlovic, Vicka Ivankovic, Ivan Dragicevic, Ivanka Ivankovic and Jakov Colo - told a priest they had seen the Virgin on a hillside near their town.
Three Ecclesiastical commissions are not reflected that confirm their claims and the bishops of the former Yugoslavia finally declared that 'could not be said that it was supernatural apparitions or revelations'.
In 1985, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger - now Pope Benedict - banned pilgrimages to the place, but this was largely ignored. Instead the seers have grown economically as a result of their statements - and with them also the country that has prospered thanks to the 'Madonna gold rush'.
Some today own smart executive houses with immaculate gardens, double garage, security gates and one of them has a tennis court.
They also own expensive cars and have married - one of them, Ivan Dragicevic, a former American beauty queen.
http://www.associazionenostrasignoradilourdes.com/content/view/81/1/
Best Sayings For Real Estate Agents
Medjugorje Medjugorje
Medjugorje seen by lay
"From the beginning warned that the Franciscans had to wait for the opinion of the Church ... The heads of events, however, sought to bring the masses to Medjugorje as soon as possible to make a lot of money on propaganda and manipulate the Virgin in their battle against the bishop. They packed "miracles" on the sun, have cited hundreds of non-existent healing, and told of seeing that all the faithful believe all ... "(Bishop Pavao Zanic, 1990).
"The many" messages "attributed to Our Lady of Medjugorje are simple inventions ... Our faith can not be the result of fantasy and hallucination ... In Medjugorje, there is a real danger that Mary and the Church "privatize" the faithful imagine the Virgin Mary and the Church according to their own tastes, perceptions and pleasure ... "(Bishop Ratko Peric, 2004).
Reviews
Home »BUSINESS OF FAITH
Marco Corvi -" Medjugorje is completely false "(PREVIEW € 19) 285 October
(2603 reads) Related Links
Medjugorje is completely false
Marco Corvi
MEDJUGORJE is all false
FROM 19 OCTOBER IN ALL LIBRARIES
PREVIEW EDITION / ISBN 978-88-88857-17-6 / pp. 288 / € 19.00 /
Once Medjugorje was a small desolate village beyond the Adriatic Sea. But after June 24, 1981, the day you guys claim to have seen the Virgin Mary Apparition on, his life changed. Today is one of the world capitals of religious tourism, which can accommodate each year more than a million pilgrims from all over the world.
What is, however, behind the alleged phenomenon of the appearances? And how credible are the stories and studies that have followed over the years and have tried to shed light on it?
If the Catholic hierarchy has assumed from the outset a very cautious attitude of the people of the unbelievers was divided: on the one hand, there are no doubts the supernatural character of those events, other people suspected deception .
But is it really impossible to reach, on the basis of available data, a conclusion based minimally?
The author of this book thinks that truth is at hand - if only you want to see it. In the now very large literature devoted to the apparitions in reality everything is written: the ambiguities, contradictions, the lies of the protagonists of the story are obvious, and irrefutable.
Special attention should be paid what for a quarter of a century have been the trump card of the proponents of Medjugorje: the scientific investigations carried out by different groups. For the first time are critically examined and thoroughly tests and medical reports that show the sincerity of the visionaries and inexplicable phenomena. Unfortunately, there is not one that stands up to careful analysis.
Marco Corvi, "the test so-called" scientific "I spent about a third of my work. I have been conducting a thorough examination that no one had ever tried so far. What I can say, briefly, is that it is the unique way in which these tests were carried out, amazing how they were interpreted, the disconcerting way in which the propaganda presented them. "
Among the many" scandals "sprung up around the phenomenon Medjugorje, this is also revealed and documented that (so far carefully concealed in Italy) of U.S. religious community founded for "will" of Our Lady of Medjugorje, which is still advertised and attended by some of the visionaries. It is actually multi-million dollar company, whose founder was sentenced to pay substantial damages to former followers, who accused him of subjecting them to indoctrination, psychological, and so have their extorted large sums of money.
"Allegations of brainwashing and money laundering affect a religious group in the area and some unfortunate members leave Caritas born in 1987 in Shelby County to promote the experience of Medjugorje, the village where six Eastern European children claimed to see the Virgin Mary.
Today Caritas has grown to become a multimillionaire, with families who live there all year, a travel agency that offers pilgrimages to Medjugorje, Bosnia-Herzegovina, a publishing industry and even a farm.
[.] "Terry's philosophy is to not answer people who say bad things about him - said Joseph Ritchey, a Birmingham lawyer who looks after the interests of Caritas -. Do you think that would give credibility to the criticism by responding to complaints. [.] I do not think there is something terrible there, it would not otherwise be represented. "
Sara Foss, March 26, 2001," Birmingham Post-Herald
short, The Medjugorje phenomenon is the son of an extraordinary propaganda machine, primarily local, but not only, some with other superficial maneuvered into a real bad faith, which has relied on a phenomenon to rekindle the warm false beliefs of believers and to revitalize economically the tourism industry of the country and beyond.
Singular tips from the book to read
The Lady [Mrs., in Croatian] knows how to reward the zeal that Laurentin [Marian theologian and author of numerous works on Medjugorje] has repeatedly demonstrated in defending it. The same French
mariologist informs us that on 1 August 1984, the question (given to Our Lady, through Marija, from a Franciscan of Belgrade) "What message do you have for us priests?" was the reply: "Have you read the book to the priests of his father Laurentin and spread" (recorded in video response).
Obviously this has led to laughter in those who have at least some 'critical spirit and then Laurentin defended himself by saying that it was not his intention to boast that "sponsorship." He even added: "Knowing many visionaries, are not pleased when, very rarely, some of them believe the praise should be accorded by the Madonna. I'm always afraid that this kind of praise are driven by the desire to get in my thanks. "
This time hit the mark, father Laurentin. However
Our Lady has not devoted a strange editorial promotions in fact only just told.
More significantly, the former is the case of a biography of Jesus entitled The Poem of the Man-God, written on alleged divine inspiration, the mystic Maria Valtorta. The work has spread among the followers of Medjugorje since 1982, when, as we shall see, there was an endorsement of the Madonna, communicated through Marija. It is still considered a cult in the environment, so much so that during the second half of 2006 Radio Maria has sent a reading series.
The oddity is that the first edition of this book was incorporated in 1959, the Index of Books Prohibited by the Catholic Church.
On 31 January 1985, the then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, as Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, wrote a letter to the Archbishop of Genoa, Giuseppe Siri, which defined the work in question an expression of "a well- known category of mental illness. " The future Pope Benedict XVI went on to say that
elements introduced in the second edition does not change the nature of the work, which consists of a mountain of childishness, fantasies, historical and exegetical falsehoods, diluted in a subtly sensual, to Due to a bevy of women to follow Jesus in all this is a pile of pseudo-elements. Therefore, for the second edition, the condemnation by the Church remains valid.
Although it was officially abolished, Cardinal Ratzinger to the Index of Forbidden Books "retains all its moral authority."
Father Philip Pavich, a Franciscan Croatian born American, who lived in Medjugorje for the past five years, October 4, 1991 wanted to communicate via fax to Medjugorje Center that it was a text indexing is that it was possible that the Madonna agreed with it: then asked who was no longer sold. Attach a letter from Ratzinger.
Here's what happened in Pavich's own words: "Instead of thanking me, furious about what I had done. I could not tolerate that blatantly contradict the Mother of God "If you do not believe the Valtorta, then you do not believe in Medjugorje" This is what I said. "
In March 1992, when Maria was in the U.S. for a series of meetings with the adherents overseas, was a guest in New Orleans, an episode of the Focus program aired on EWTN network. She was accompanied by Father Slavko Barbaric, Charismatic became the Franciscan spiritual director of the visionaries after the removal of Vlasic (ordered in 1984 by Bishop Zanic for disciplinary reasons).
At one point, came the call from a viewer named Bob.
BOB: What did he say exactly the Madonna on the Poem of the Man-God? The issue is very controversial and there are discussions between those who believe in the messages of Medjugorje.
MARIJA: A day in the early days, I did not even know the existence of this book. But a lay brother of Mostar told me: "Ask if it is true to the Madonna." I asked the Virgin Mary and told me: "You can read." He did not say anything else. Now I have heard that there are big problems with this book and perhaps father Slavko can explain them.
BARBARIC FATHER: Yes, there is much confusion on this point. This is my advice: ask your bishop what we need to think about it.
In 1995, Sister Emmanuel Maillard living in the "Community of the Beatitudes" of Medjugorje, Marija interviewed, which confirms and clarifies some details: the Franciscan who had asked her to ask the Virgin Mary was called father Franjo, was precisely the year 1982.
The most reasonable hypothesis is that Marija, not knowing the book had never imagined that the Index. So he invents an answer, however vague, blatantly contradicted the official position of the Church.
Seers, today
premise that none of the six visionaries working, except for Yakov, who lends his parish work in the office. He is married since 1993 to an Italian, Annalisa Barozzi, and has three children. He no longer has daily apparitions since 1998, but has one year, December 25.
Ivanka has three children, having married in 1986 Rajko Elez Branko, whose brother opened a restaurant in a great location, opposite the church in Medjugorje. In that work the same local Rajko 207. He stopped having daily apparitions since 1985 and has one every year, June 25, the anniversary of "official" of the apparitions.
Mirjana married in 1989, has two daughters. He no longer has daily apparitions since 1982, but has a second day of each month in the morning and another every 18 March.
Vicka, married since 2002, with two children, continues to have regular appearances.
Marija is married since 1993 with the Italian Paolo Lunetti, has four children and lives in Monza. He still has daily apparitions. In addition, the 25th of each month has a special message for all the faithful, who will communicate to the parish of Medjugorje, the latter then promptly disclose all over the world.
Ivan in 1994, he married Laureen Murphy, a former Miss Massachusetts has three children. He still has daily apparitions from May to September and lives in Medjugorje and the rest of the year in Boston, United States, but his family welcomed pilgrims throughout the year.
The two "visionaries of second generation are married: Marijana in 1993 (and soon ceased to have its interior locutions) and Jelena in 2002 (now living in Rome with her husband, Massimiliano Valente). In the early
Ivan declared: "Our Lady, from first appearances, he has forbidden to receive money." But in 1994
Laurentin informs its readers that "Ivan is now a beautiful new house, which will allow him to live by hosting pilgrims, as they do Mirjana, Ivanka, Jakov Vicka and soon."
The following year, stated: "Their standard of living is much higher than that of their childhood."
worth a visit the official website through which collects Ivan reservations. Let us quote here a few 'fragment'
Come Renew your spiritual life.
Experience Prayer
with Ivan Dragicevic & Family
NEW! Departures 2007: now available dates
Your Prayer Experience Package includes:
[.] Meeting with Father Jozo & other visionaries
* Only for the Pilgrims of our experience of prayer
* [.] Interview with Ivan in the chapel of our house
[.] Ivan will lead the group on the hill of the apparitions to pray and meditate
There will be many opportunities to talk with Ivan during your stay
[.] Dragičević The family will do their best to make as much as possible pleasant and comfortable stay.
www.pilgrimages.com / prayerexperience
more like an invitation to spirituality or a persuasive advertisement?
unlikely friendship?
exists in the world an incalculable number of associations who spread the cult of Medjugorje, spreading the messages of the seers, calling to prayer, organizing pilgrimages and selling of all lawfully, books and DVDs.
The largest Medjugorje Center is located in the United States. This is not surprising, since the apparitions of Our Lady overseas have had a particular impact, as evidenced, indirectly, the information published by Paul Apolito in his book Internet and Madonna in the 70s in United States there were eleven people said they had cha see Madonna. In the '80s, after the spread of news about Medjugorje, the cases have been forty-nine. The growth trend seems unstoppable, however, since in the 90s, there were one hundred alleged apparitions. The Medjugorje Center
did mention that you found in the city of Birmingham (Alabama) and called Caritas (of course it has nothing to do with the eponymous pastoral organization of the CEI, well known in our country). It is such a
founder Terry Colafrancesco, which during the 80s who spent several years in Medjugorje Marija befriending. When the seer, in 1988, he decided, noble, donate a kidney to his sick brother, he was to offer travel and hospitality.
So, Marija went to Birmingham, his brother was sick and as an interpreter, Cyrille Auboyneau, we already know.
Note that in weeks when he was in Alabama, between 1988 and 1989, Maria continued to have the apparitions. Rather said that Our Lady had appeared while he was in surgery, under general anesthesia:
LIVIO FATHER: You had the appearance while you were under general anesthesia and notavi the face of the Madonna which followed the operation?
MARIJA: Yes, for example at the time of the first cut I saw that Madonna has done as a grimace on his face.
According Socci, this reaction would indicate the "typical female sensitivity" of the Madonna.
The apparitions took place normally in the room of spouses Colafrancesco (around 10.40 am, because of time zone), but on November 24, Thanksgiving Day, Terry asked Marija to have an appearance in a vast field of 36 hectares of his property, under a pine tree from which he had placed a crucifix and a statue of the Madonna.
Auboyneau confirmed that the founder of Caritas of Birmingham asked for an appearance in the field, "Terry wanted an appearance in the field, under the tree, and made this request. So we asked Marija to ask Our Lady if she could appear in the field, on Thanksgiving Day. The Madonna said that she would appear. "
In the months following the field of Caritas became one of the major attractions of tourist from Alabama, and supported by Lisa Shivers, director of the local Bureau of Tourism and Travel. What
Colafrancesco is not a simple Medjugorje Center: this is a real community, also open to families in which the vein of a religious message is harmless but, in my opinion, grotesque 'patriotism' ( at 5.00 every morning to pray the Patriotic Rosary). Such a community would be born as a result of a request from Madonna (see track below). Since the intermediary Colafrancesco and Our Lady of Marija, then we must conclude that it has been known to make such a request. It repeats the pattern of the community of Vlasic?
the official website of the organization is reported to Marija Pavlovic (in Lunetti) had 125 appearances at the Caritas of Birmingham, where he returned regularly over the years. Because during his stay at the surgery they were little more than thirty, it is deduced that there have been about 90 since 1989.
But we read a singular document published 23 November 2006 on the same website:
On August 5, 1620 the Mayflower sailed to the New World. This small boat was the vessel that God worked to bring a group of Christians in an unknown land across the Atlantic. [.] For anyone who knows just a little 'the relationship between the Blessed Virgin Mary and the birth of the United States of America, is really exciting to think in the history of our nation, the sign which confirms this sacred bond, as the 5 August, according to Our Lady of Medjugorje, used your real birthday.
[.] A year ago, November 24, 2005, Thanksgiving Day [.] Marija Lunetti was back in Alabama for a private tour of two days. But these days have had special significance for the community, because Thanksgiving fell November 24. The first time Our Lady appeared in the camp was on Thanksgiving Day and it was November 24, 1988. [.] It was a special anniversary for us, especially as Marija's visit was not planned. It was a spontaneous decision that led to Marija in Alabama in recent days. And so we celebrated not only the memory of our nation's first Thanksgiving, but also the first Thanksgiving in our community, because through these apparitions, Our Lady began a plan to reconcile ourselves with God, our families and our nation, through She asked the community that was created here.
On 24 November 1988, Madonna gave a message. He said: "I invite you to live my messages. I am here to help. Intercede with God on your behalf, for all your intentions. "
Since then, the field has become a place of pilgrimage, a place where tens of thousands of people came over the years to meet the Virgin Mary and praying to present their needs. It is a place that also has great significance for our nation, dedicated to Our Lady's heart for his return to God [.]
What is more, Mirjana November 2, 2006 also was a guest of Colafrancesco. Marija
Note that, when his friend the U.S. has the apparitions of Medjugorje second time zone (so it's morning in Alabama and evening in Medjugorje). Instead Mirjana, Medjugorje that has the appearance of the second day of the month in the morning, had the morning in Alabama. Despite this anomaly, the 8000 faithful gathered in Birmingham knew that would have seen an ecstasy in the morning, shortly after the arrival of Mirjana. But, you know, the Madonna of Medjugorje is by appointment (not a joke, as we shall see).
read the guide "official": Despite the cold
pilgrims gathered and continued to arrive throughout the morning, far exceeding the 8 000. The cold has not diminished the desire of thousands of these being with Madonna. [.] Miriam came around at 8.45 and joined pilgrims in the recitation of the Glorious Mysteries of the Rosary. At 9.07 came Mirjana in ecstasy, and remained with Madonna about 3 ½ minutes. Although the same cold for hours, the crowd was determined to stay until he heard the message of Madonna translated into your language.
Lady SpA
On 16 March 1995 a friend of Vicka addressed, by letter, to a group of wealthy Dutch devotees of Our Lady, saying he had asked the Virgin Mary, using the same Vicka permission to build a hotel of 100 beds. In this letter, it stated that on 2 December 1994, the seer said: "[Madonna] said that you can start to build up gradually. "
is therefore necessary to raise the funds.
The Dutch call immediately, by fax, to Father Slavko Barbaric questions about the reliability of this strange call.
Upon learning of this, Vicka March 19 anticipates the response of his spiritual father and wrote to the head of the Dutch group the following amazing letter, which, like the others mentioned in this paragraph, will then be published on "Crkva na kamenu ( The Church on the Rock), diocesan pastoral bulletin (number 11, November 1997, page 3):
valued and respected friend,
I have already written by my friend and his family and now I am writing again because maybe I was not well understood and, in addition, I am a bit 'surprised that you are looking for posts by someone other than the messages of Our Lady, Mother of God
When the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God approves and insists on the commencement of construction work, then I do not understand why she has doubts and calls for all posts and approval by ordinary people.
Our Lady, Mother of God, has given its approval for the commencement of work by me, so if you believe in Medjugorje and the apparitions of the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, do not understand why you have further questions.
I hope with all my heart a happy start of work and mutual cooperation. Many greetings. I pray for her.
Father Slavko Barbaric
had not been informed of the letter by Vicki and so we just reported on March 28 sent his reply and denied that the seer had never applied to the Madonna on the desirability of building the hotel
index of ' 5 Introduction by
Medjugorje.
IS ALL FALSE 13 1. Oddities and contradictions
115 2. Absurdity
135 3. Wonders and innocence
169 4. The Church's position
177 5. Scientific investigations?
269 6. Travel Notes 279 Bibliography
**************************************** **********************************
Medjugorje, "EVIL PHENOMENON" THE GOLDEN EGGS: THE
"J'accuse" of a bishop
34427. ROME-ADISTA. "In Medjugorje everything happens in function of money: Pilgrimages, overnights, sales of gadgets. Thus, abusing the good faith of those poor people who go there thinking of getting to the Madonna, the false seers have financial systems, they marry and lead a wealthy life to say the least. " Words that weigh like rocks, those issued to Petrus, the online newspaper that deals with religious information, by Msgr. Andrea Gemma, former bishop of Isernia-Venafro. Monsignor Gemma does not hide behind a finger and accuses: "It is perfectly diabolical, around which revolve many underground interests." The river of money that has invested the citizens of Bosnia-Herzegovina, from that which took place in 1981 the first apparition of Mary, arouses the suspicions of the former bishop: "These people who claim to be in contact with are Madonna creating havoc and confusion among the faithful for interest and benefit absolutely despicable "- and continues -" I do not really seem disinterested persons. Indeed, together with lenders side by this sensational scam, obviously have an interest material to pretend to see and talk with the Virgin Mary. "
The position of the former bishop of Isernia endorsement is in doubt is already known about by Msgr. Zanic, Bishop of Mostar at the time of the alleged apparitions began, that his successor Mgr. Peric. In response to the supporters of Medjugorje who say that the Holy See has never expressed about Msgr. Gemma does not fail to remind the Court that "The Holy Church, the only one to have a say through the mouth of the bishop of Mostar, has already said publicly and officially, that the Madonna has never appeared at Medjugorje" - and continues - "not even Fatima to Lourdes and it was that the Holy See expressed directly on the appearances Marian. Why, then, would make an exception in this case? The truth is that when talking about the bishop of Mostar, about the Church of Christ, and him, which is expressed with the authority conferred by the Vatican, that we must heed. " Compared to the position of Pope Benedict XVI about Msgr. Gemma merely notes that "it was he, as Cardinal Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, to issue notes of the official adverse Medjugorje, such as forbidding priests and religious to make a pilgrimage to that land." And the request for comment on the rumors that they attributed to John Paul II's sympathies against the bishop of Medjugorje visionaries replication: it is "unproven legend, given that these are the personal opinions and do not represent in any way a magisterial act".
http://www.adistaonline.it/index.php?op=articolo&id=42786
Father Vlasic Medjugorje: Pope has begun a crackdown on the biggest shrine Catholic world with the illegal suspension of the priest at the center of allegations that the Virgin Mary would appear more than 40000 times.
Benedict XVI has authorized 'severe cautionary and disciplinary measures' against Father Tomislav Vlasic, the former' director spiritual 'six children who claimed that Madonna would have appeared to them at Medjugorje in Bosnia.
The Franciscan priest has been suspended after refusing to cooperate in the allegations of scandalous sexual immorality 'aggravated by mystical motivations'. E 'was also accused of "diffusion of dubious doctrine, manipulation of consciences, suspected mysticism and disobedience to orders given legitimately."
Father Vlasic was a central figure in promoting the apparitions that would begin in 1981 and continues today.
In 1984 he boasted to Pope John Paul II to be the one 'who through divine providence guides the seers of Medjugorje 'and the visionaries themselves said that the Virgin told them that Vlasic was a living saint.
But the Bosnian priest came in second place when it emerged that he had had a child with a nun called Sister Rufina, and has subsequently refused to leave his order to marry her but instead he asked to not report it.
Father Vlasic then moved to Parma, in Italy, where he gave off a mixed religious community of men and women, called the Queen of Peace, which was dedicated to the apparitions of Medjugorje.
Medjugorje has grown to become the most visited Catholic shrine in the unauthorized world, attracting hundreds of thousands of pilgrims each year, including many from the United Kingdom and Ireland.
Local bishops, however, convinced of imposture in 2006 complained directly to Pope Benedict XVI. This kicked off a survey that the Vatican has put the spotlight in the role of Father Vlasic.
The priest was suspended by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith after he refused to cooperate with the investigation into his conduct, 'instead of justifying himself citing his zealous activity' in establishing religious communities and building churches the Medjugorje area.
The decree confirming his suspension was signed with Pope's approval by Cardinal William Levada, prefect of the CDF, and Father Jose Carballo, Minister General of the Order of Friars Minor.
confines Father Vlasic to a Franciscan monastery in Italy and prevents contact of the Queen of Peace community, or his lawyers without permission from his superior. He was forbidden from making public appearances, preaching and hearing confessions, and must declare a solemn profession of the Catholic faith.
The Vatican has warned Father Vlasic that he will be excommunicated if they violate a prohibition.
The measure had been taken earlier this year, but was made public this week by the Bishop of Mostar, Ratko Peric, on request Vatican to inform the local population of the state of the priest.
Father Vlasic is the second spiritual adviser to the visionaries to be suspended from his ministry. The other, Father Jozo Zovko, was suspended by Bishop Peric in 2004.
represents a huge blow to millions of supporters of Medjugorje in the world who hope that the Vatican investigation into the legitimacy of the Sanctuary.
During the year, Italian Bishop Andrea Gemma denounced the Medjugorje claims about how 'the devil' and he predicted that 'soon the Vatican would intervene with something explosive to unmask once and for all who is behind this deception '. The phenomenon Well
beginning June 25, 1981, when six children - Mirjana Dragicevic, Marija Pavlovic, Vicka Ivankovic, Ivan Dragicevic, Ivanka Ivankovic and Jakov Colo - told a priest they had seen the Virgin on a hillside near their town.
Three Ecclesiastical commissions are not reflected that confirm their claims and the bishops of the former Yugoslavia finally declared that 'could not be said that it was supernatural apparitions or revelations'.
In 1985, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger - now Pope Benedict - banned pilgrimages to the place, but this has been largely ignored. Instead the seers have grown economically, as a result of their statements - and with them also the country that has prospered thanks to the 'Madonna gold rush'.
Some today own smart executive houses with immaculate gardens, double garage, security gates and one of them has a tennis court.
They also own expensive cars and have married - one of them, Ivan Dragicevic, a former American beauty queen.
http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/5710/pa...20vlasicki0.jpg
http://laici.forumcommunity.net/?t=6025749 
Medjugorje seen by lay
"From the beginning warned that the Franciscans had to wait for the opinion of the Church ... The heads of events, however, sought to bring the masses to Medjugorje as soon as possible to make a lot of money on propaganda and manipulate the Virgin in their battle against the bishop. They packed "miracles" on the sun, have cited hundreds of non-existent healing, and told of seeing that all the faithful believe all ... "(Bishop Pavao Zanic, 1990).
"The many" messages "attributed to Our Lady of Medjugorje are simple inventions ... Our faith can not be the result of fantasy and hallucination ... In Medjugorje, there is a real danger that Mary and the Church "privatize" the faithful imagine the Virgin Mary and the Church according to their own tastes, perceptions and pleasure ... "(Bishop Ratko Peric, 2004).
Reviews
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Marco Corvi -" Medjugorje is completely false "(PREVIEW € 19) 285 October
(2603 reads) Related Links
Medjugorje is completely false
Marco Corvi
MEDJUGORJE is all false
FROM 19 OCTOBER IN ALL LIBRARIES
PREVIEW EDITION / ISBN 978-88-88857-17-6 / pp. 288 / € 19.00 /
Once Medjugorje was a small desolate village beyond the Adriatic Sea. But after June 24, 1981, the day you guys claim to have seen the Virgin Mary Apparition on, his life changed. Today is one of the world capitals of religious tourism, which can accommodate each year more than a million pilgrims from all over the world.
What is, however, behind the alleged phenomenon of the appearances? And how credible are the stories and studies that have followed over the years and have tried to shed light on it?
If the Catholic hierarchy has assumed from the outset a very cautious attitude of the people of the unbelievers was divided: on the one hand, there are no doubts the supernatural character of those events, other people suspected deception .
But is it really impossible to reach, on the basis of available data, a conclusion based minimally?
The author of this book thinks that truth is at hand - if only you want to see it. In the now very large literature devoted to the apparitions in reality everything is written: the ambiguities, contradictions, the lies of the protagonists of the story are obvious, and irrefutable.
Special attention should be paid what for a quarter of a century have been the trump card of the proponents of Medjugorje: the scientific investigations carried out by different groups. For the first time are critically examined and thoroughly tests and medical reports that show the sincerity of the visionaries and inexplicable phenomena. Unfortunately, there is not one that stands up to careful analysis.
Marco Corvi, "the test so-called" scientific "I spent about a third of my work. I have been conducting a thorough examination that no one had ever tried so far. What I can say, briefly, is that it is the unique way in which these tests were carried out, amazing how they were interpreted, the disconcerting way in which the propaganda presented them. "
Among the many" scandals "sprung up around the phenomenon Medjugorje, this is also revealed and documented that (so far carefully concealed in Italy) of U.S. religious community founded for "will" of Our Lady of Medjugorje, which is still advertised and attended by some of the visionaries. It is actually multi-million dollar company, whose founder was sentenced to pay substantial damages to former followers, who accused him of subjecting them to indoctrination, psychological, and so have their extorted large sums of money.
"Allegations of brainwashing and money laundering affect a religious group in the area and some unfortunate members leave Caritas born in 1987 in Shelby County to promote the experience of Medjugorje, the village where six Eastern European children claimed to see the Virgin Mary.
Today Caritas has grown to become a multimillionaire, with families who live there all year, a travel agency that offers pilgrimages to Medjugorje, Bosnia-Herzegovina, a publishing industry and even a farm.
[.] "Terry's philosophy is to not answer people who say bad things about him - said Joseph Ritchey, a Birmingham lawyer who looks after the interests of Caritas -. Do you think that would give credibility to the criticism by responding to complaints. [.] I do not think there is something terrible there, it would not otherwise be represented. "
Sara Foss, March 26, 2001," Birmingham Post-Herald
short, The Medjugorje phenomenon is the son of an extraordinary propaganda machine, primarily local, but not only, some with other superficial maneuvered into a real bad faith, which has relied on a phenomenon to rekindle the warm false beliefs of believers and to revitalize economically the tourism industry of the country and beyond.
Singular tips from the book to read
The Lady [Mrs., in Croatian] knows how to reward the zeal that Laurentin [Marian theologian and author of numerous works on Medjugorje] has repeatedly demonstrated in defending it. The same French
mariologist informs us that on 1 August 1984, the question (given to Our Lady, through Marija, from a Franciscan of Belgrade) "What message do you have for us priests?" was the reply: "Have you read the book to the priests of his father Laurentin and spread" (recorded in video response).
Obviously this has led to laughter in those who have at least some 'critical spirit and then Laurentin defended himself by saying that it was not his intention to boast that "sponsorship." He even added: "Knowing many visionaries, are not pleased when, very rarely, some of them believe the praise should be accorded by the Madonna. I'm always afraid that this kind of praise are driven by the desire to get in my thanks. "
This time hit the mark, father Laurentin. However
Our Lady has not devoted a strange editorial promotions in fact only just told.
More significantly, the former is the case of a biography of Jesus entitled The Poem of the Man-God, written on alleged divine inspiration, the mystic Maria Valtorta. The work has spread among the followers of Medjugorje since 1982, when, as we shall see, there was an endorsement of the Madonna, communicated through Marija. It is still considered a cult in the environment, so much so that during the second half of 2006 Radio Maria has sent a reading series.
The oddity is that the first edition of this book was incorporated in 1959, the Index of Books Prohibited by the Catholic Church.
On 31 January 1985, the then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, as Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, wrote a letter to the Archbishop of Genoa, Giuseppe Siri, which defined the work in question an expression of "a well- known category of mental illness. " The future Pope Benedict XVI went on to say that
elements introduced in the second edition does not change the nature of the work, which consists of a mountain of childishness, fantasies, historical and exegetical falsehoods, diluted in a subtly sensual, to Due to a bevy of women to follow Jesus in all this is a pile of pseudo-elements. Therefore, for the second edition, the condemnation by the Church remains valid.
Although it was officially abolished, Cardinal Ratzinger to the Index of Forbidden Books "retains all its moral authority."
Father Philip Pavich, a Franciscan Croatian born American, who lived in Medjugorje for the past five years, October 4, 1991 wanted to communicate via fax to Medjugorje Center that it was a text indexing is that it was possible that the Madonna agreed with it: then asked who was no longer sold. Attach a letter from Ratzinger.
Here's what happened in Pavich's own words: "Instead of thanking me, furious about what I had done. I could not tolerate that blatantly contradict the Mother of God "If you do not believe the Valtorta, then you do not believe in Medjugorje" This is what I said. "
In March 1992, when Maria was in the U.S. for a series of meetings with the adherents overseas, was a guest in New Orleans, an episode of the Focus program aired on EWTN network. She was accompanied by Father Slavko Barbaric, Charismatic became the Franciscan spiritual director of the visionaries after the removal of Vlasic (ordered in 1984 by Bishop Zanic for disciplinary reasons).
At one point, came the call from a viewer named Bob.
BOB: What did he say exactly the Madonna on the Poem of the Man-God? The issue is very controversial and there are discussions between those who believe in the messages of Medjugorje.
MARIJA: A day in the early days, I did not even know the existence of this book. But a lay brother of Mostar told me: "Ask if it is true to the Madonna." I asked the Virgin Mary and told me: "You can read." He did not say anything else. Now I have heard that there are big problems with this book and perhaps father Slavko can explain them.
BARBARIC FATHER: Yes, there is much confusion on this point. This is my advice: ask your bishop what we need to think about it.
In 1995, Sister Emmanuel Maillard living in the "Community of the Beatitudes" of Medjugorje, Marija interviewed, which confirms and clarifies some details: the Franciscan who had asked her to ask the Virgin Mary was called father Franjo, was precisely the year 1982.
The most reasonable hypothesis is that Marija, not knowing the book had never imagined that the Index. So he invents an answer, however vague, blatantly contradicted the official position of the Church.
Seers, today
premise that none of the six visionaries working, except for Yakov, who lends his parish work in the office. He is married since 1993 to an Italian, Annalisa Barozzi, and has three children. He no longer has daily apparitions since 1998, but has one year, December 25.
Ivanka has three children, having married in 1986 Rajko Elez Branko, whose brother opened a restaurant in a great location, opposite the church in Medjugorje. In that work the same local Rajko 207. He stopped having daily apparitions since 1985 and has one every year, June 25, the anniversary of "official" of the apparitions.
Mirjana married in 1989, has two daughters. He no longer has daily apparitions since 1982, but has a second day of each month in the morning and another every 18 March.
Vicka, married since 2002, with two children, continues to have regular appearances.
Marija is married since 1993 with the Italian Paolo Lunetti, has four children and lives in Monza. He still has daily apparitions. In addition, the 25th of each month has a special message for all the faithful, who will communicate to the parish of Medjugorje, the latter then promptly disclose all over the world.
Ivan in 1994, he married Laureen Murphy, a former Miss Massachusetts has three children. He still has daily apparitions from May to September and lives in Medjugorje and the rest of the year in Boston, United States, but his family welcomed pilgrims throughout the year.
The two "visionaries of second generation are married: Marijana in 1993 (and soon ceased to have its interior locutions) and Jelena in 2002 (now living in Rome with her husband, Massimiliano Valente). In the early
Ivan declared: "Our Lady, from first appearances, he has forbidden to receive money." But in 1994
Laurentin informs its readers that "Ivan is now a beautiful new house, which will allow him to live by hosting pilgrims, as they do Mirjana, Ivanka, Jakov Vicka and soon."
The following year, stated: "Their standard of living is much higher than that of their childhood."
worth a visit the official website through which collects Ivan reservations. Let us quote here a few 'fragment'
Come Renew your spiritual life.
Experience Prayer
with Ivan Dragicevic & Family
NEW! Departures 2007: now available dates
Your Prayer Experience Package includes:
[.] Meeting with Father Jozo & other visionaries
* Only for the Pilgrims of our experience of prayer
* [.] Interview with Ivan in the chapel of our house
[.] Ivan will lead the group on the hill of the apparitions to pray and meditate
There will be many opportunities to talk with Ivan during your stay
[.] Dragičević The family will do their best to make as much as possible pleasant and comfortable stay.
www.pilgrimages.com / prayerexperience
more like an invitation to spirituality or a persuasive advertisement?
unlikely friendship?
exists in the world an incalculable number of associations who spread the cult of Medjugorje, spreading the messages of the seers, calling to prayer, organizing pilgrimages and selling of all lawfully, books and DVDs.
The largest Medjugorje Center is located in the United States. This is not surprising, since the apparitions of Our Lady overseas have had a particular impact, as evidenced, indirectly, the information published by Paul Apolito in his book Internet and Madonna in the 70s in United States there were eleven people said they had cha see Madonna. In the '80s, after the spread of news about Medjugorje, the cases have been forty-nine. The growth trend seems unstoppable, however, since in the 90s, there were one hundred alleged apparitions. The Medjugorje Center
did mention that you found in the city of Birmingham (Alabama) and called Caritas (of course it has nothing to do with the eponymous pastoral organization of the CEI, well known in our country). It is such a
founder Terry Colafrancesco, which during the 80s who spent several years in Medjugorje Marija befriending. When the seer, in 1988, he decided, noble, donate a kidney to his sick brother, he was to offer travel and hospitality.
So, Marija went to Birmingham, his brother was sick and as an interpreter, Cyrille Auboyneau, we already know.
Note that in weeks when he was in Alabama, between 1988 and 1989, Maria continued to have the apparitions. Rather said that Our Lady had appeared while he was in surgery, under general anesthesia:
LIVIO FATHER: You had the appearance while you were under general anesthesia and notavi the face of the Madonna which followed the operation?
MARIJA: Yes, for example at the time of the first cut I saw that Madonna has done as a grimace on his face.
According Socci, this reaction would indicate the "typical female sensitivity" of the Madonna.
The apparitions took place normally in the room of spouses Colafrancesco (around 10.40 am, because of time zone), but on November 24, Thanksgiving Day, Terry asked Marija to have an appearance in a vast field of 36 hectares of his property, under a pine tree from which he had placed a crucifix and a statue of the Madonna.
Auboyneau confirmed that the founder of Caritas of Birmingham asked for an appearance in the field, "Terry wanted an appearance in the field, under the tree, and made this request. So we asked Marija to ask Our Lady if she could appear in the field, on Thanksgiving Day. The Madonna said that she would appear. "
In the months following the field of Caritas became one of the major attractions of tourist from Alabama, and supported by Lisa Shivers, director of the local Bureau of Tourism and Travel. What
Colafrancesco is not a simple Medjugorje Center: this is a real community, also open to families in which the vein of a religious message is harmless but, in my opinion, grotesque 'patriotism' ( at 5.00 every morning to pray the Patriotic Rosary). Such a community would be born as a result of a request from Madonna (see track below). Since the intermediary Colafrancesco and Our Lady of Marija, then we must conclude that it has been known to make such a request. It repeats the pattern of the community of Vlasic?
the official website of the organization is reported to Marija Pavlovic (in Lunetti) had 125 appearances at the Caritas of Birmingham, where he returned regularly over the years. Because during his stay at the surgery they were little more than thirty, it is deduced that there have been about 90 since 1989.
But we read a singular document published 23 November 2006 on the same website:
On August 5, 1620 the Mayflower sailed to the New World. This small boat was the vessel that God worked to bring a group of Christians in an unknown land across the Atlantic. [.] For anyone who knows just a little 'the relationship between the Blessed Virgin Mary and the birth of the United States of America, is really exciting to think in the history of our nation, the sign which confirms this sacred bond, as the 5 August, according to Our Lady of Medjugorje, used your real birthday.
[.] A year ago, November 24, 2005, Thanksgiving Day [.] Marija Lunetti was back in Alabama for a private tour of two days. But these days have had special significance for the community, because Thanksgiving fell November 24. The first time Our Lady appeared in the camp was on Thanksgiving Day and it was November 24, 1988. [.] It was a special anniversary for us, especially as Marija's visit was not planned. It was a spontaneous decision that led to Marija in Alabama in recent days. And so we celebrated not only the memory of our nation's first Thanksgiving, but also the first Thanksgiving in our community, because through these apparitions, Our Lady began a plan to reconcile ourselves with God, our families and our nation, through She asked the community that was created here.
On 24 November 1988, Madonna gave a message. He said: "I invite you to live my messages. I am here to help. Intercede with God on your behalf, for all your intentions. "
Since then, the field has become a place of pilgrimage, a place where tens of thousands of people came over the years to meet the Virgin Mary and praying to present their needs. It is a place that also has great significance for our nation, dedicated to Our Lady's heart for his return to God [.]
What is more, Mirjana November 2, 2006 also was a guest of Colafrancesco. Marija
Note that, when his friend the U.S. has the apparitions of Medjugorje second time zone (so it's morning in Alabama and evening in Medjugorje). Instead Mirjana, Medjugorje that has the appearance of the second day of the month in the morning, had the morning in Alabama. Despite this anomaly, the 8000 faithful gathered in Birmingham knew that would have seen an ecstasy in the morning, shortly after the arrival of Mirjana. But, you know, the Madonna of Medjugorje is by appointment (not a joke, as we shall see).
read the guide "official": Despite the cold
pilgrims gathered and continued to arrive throughout the morning, far exceeding the 8 000. The cold has not diminished the desire of thousands of these being with Madonna. [.] Miriam came around at 8.45 and joined pilgrims in the recitation of the Glorious Mysteries of the Rosary. At 9.07 came Mirjana in ecstasy, and remained with Madonna about 3 ½ minutes. Although the same cold for hours, the crowd was determined to stay until he heard the message of Madonna translated into your language.
Lady SpA
On 16 March 1995 a friend of Vicka addressed, by letter, to a group of wealthy Dutch devotees of Our Lady, saying he had asked the Virgin Mary, using the same Vicka permission to build a hotel of 100 beds. In this letter, it stated that on 2 December 1994, the seer said: "[Madonna] said that you can start to build up gradually. "
is therefore necessary to raise the funds.
The Dutch call immediately, by fax, to Father Slavko Barbaric questions about the reliability of this strange call.
Upon learning of this, Vicka March 19 anticipates the response of his spiritual father and wrote to the head of the Dutch group the following amazing letter, which, like the others mentioned in this paragraph, will then be published on "Crkva na kamenu ( The Church on the Rock), diocesan pastoral bulletin (number 11, November 1997, page 3):
valued and respected friend,
I have already written by my friend and his family and now I am writing again because maybe I was not well understood and, in addition, I am a bit 'surprised that you are looking for posts by someone other than the messages of Our Lady, Mother of God
When the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God approves and insists on the commencement of construction work, then I do not understand why she has doubts and calls for all posts and approval by ordinary people.
Our Lady, Mother of God, has given its approval for the commencement of work by me, so if you believe in Medjugorje and the apparitions of the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, do not understand why you have further questions.
I hope with all my heart a happy start of work and mutual cooperation. Many greetings. I pray for her.
Father Slavko Barbaric
had not been informed of the letter by Vicki and so we just reported on March 28 sent his reply and denied that the seer had never applied to the Madonna on the desirability of building the hotel
index of ' 5 Introduction by
Medjugorje.
IS ALL FALSE 13 1. Oddities and contradictions
115 2. Absurdity
135 3. Wonders and innocence
169 4. The Church's position
177 5. Scientific investigations?
269 6. Travel Notes 279 Bibliography
**************************************** **********************************
Medjugorje, "EVIL PHENOMENON" THE GOLDEN EGGS: THE
"J'accuse" of a bishop
34427. ROME-ADISTA. "In Medjugorje everything happens in function of money: Pilgrimages, overnights, sales of gadgets. Thus, abusing the good faith of those poor people who go there thinking of getting to the Madonna, the false seers have financial systems, they marry and lead a wealthy life to say the least. " Words that weigh like rocks, those issued to Petrus, the online newspaper that deals with religious information, by Msgr. Andrea Gemma, former bishop of Isernia-Venafro. Monsignor Gemma does not hide behind a finger and accuses: "It is perfectly diabolical, around which revolve many underground interests." The river of money that has invested the citizens of Bosnia-Herzegovina, from that which took place in 1981 the first apparition of Mary, arouses the suspicions of the former bishop: "These people who claim to be in contact with are Madonna creating havoc and confusion among the faithful for interest and benefit absolutely despicable "- and continues -" I do not really seem disinterested persons. Indeed, together with lenders side by this sensational scam, obviously have an interest material to pretend to see and talk with the Virgin Mary. "
The position of the former bishop of Isernia endorsement is in doubt is already known about by Msgr. Zanic, Bishop of Mostar at the time of the alleged apparitions began, that his successor Mgr. Peric. In response to the supporters of Medjugorje who say that the Holy See has never expressed about Msgr. Gemma does not fail to remind the Court that "The Holy Church, the only one to have a say through the mouth of the bishop of Mostar, has already said publicly and officially, that the Madonna has never appeared at Medjugorje" - and continues - "not even Fatima to Lourdes and it was that the Holy See expressed directly on the appearances Marian. Why, then, would make an exception in this case? The truth is that when talking about the bishop of Mostar, about the Church of Christ, and him, which is expressed with the authority conferred by the Vatican, that we must heed. " Compared to the position of Pope Benedict XVI about Msgr. Gemma merely notes that "it was he, as Cardinal Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, to issue notes of the official adverse Medjugorje, such as forbidding priests and religious to make a pilgrimage to that land." And the request for comment on the rumors that they attributed to John Paul II's sympathies against the bishop of Medjugorje visionaries replication: it is "unproven legend, given that these are the personal opinions and do not represent in any way a magisterial act".
http://www.adistaonline.it/index.php?op=articolo&id=42786
Father Vlasic Medjugorje: Pope has begun a crackdown on the biggest shrine Catholic world with the illegal suspension of the priest at the center of allegations that the Virgin Mary would appear more than 40000 times.
Benedict XVI has authorized 'severe cautionary and disciplinary measures' against Father Tomislav Vlasic, the former' director spiritual 'six children who claimed that Madonna would have appeared to them at Medjugorje in Bosnia.
The Franciscan priest has been suspended after refusing to cooperate in the allegations of scandalous sexual immorality 'aggravated by mystical motivations'. E 'was also accused of "diffusion of dubious doctrine, manipulation of consciences, suspected mysticism and disobedience to orders given legitimately."
Father Vlasic was a central figure in promoting the apparitions that would begin in 1981 and continues today.
In 1984 he boasted to Pope John Paul II to be the one 'who through divine providence guides the seers of Medjugorje 'and the visionaries themselves said that the Virgin told them that Vlasic was a living saint.
But the Bosnian priest came in second place when it emerged that he had had a child with a nun called Sister Rufina, and has subsequently refused to leave his order to marry her but instead he asked to not report it.
Father Vlasic then moved to Parma, in Italy, where he gave off a mixed religious community of men and women, called the Queen of Peace, which was dedicated to the apparitions of Medjugorje.
Medjugorje has grown to become the most visited Catholic shrine in the unauthorized world, attracting hundreds of thousands of pilgrims each year, including many from the United Kingdom and Ireland.
Local bishops, however, convinced of imposture in 2006 complained directly to Pope Benedict XVI. This kicked off a survey that the Vatican has put the spotlight in the role of Father Vlasic.
The priest was suspended by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith after he refused to cooperate with the investigation into his conduct, 'instead of justifying himself citing his zealous activity' in establishing religious communities and building churches the Medjugorje area.
The decree confirming his suspension was signed with Pope's approval by Cardinal William Levada, prefect of the CDF, and Father Jose Carballo, Minister General of the Order of Friars Minor.
confines Father Vlasic to a Franciscan monastery in Italy and prevents contact of the Queen of Peace community, or his lawyers without permission from his superior. He was forbidden from making public appearances, preaching and hearing confessions, and must declare a solemn profession of the Catholic faith.
The Vatican has warned Father Vlasic that he will be excommunicated if they violate a prohibition.
The measure had been taken earlier this year, but was made public this week by the Bishop of Mostar, Ratko Peric, on request Vatican to inform the local population of the state of the priest.
Father Vlasic is the second spiritual adviser to the visionaries to be suspended from his ministry. The other, Father Jozo Zovko, was suspended by Bishop Peric in 2004.
represents a huge blow to millions of supporters of Medjugorje in the world who hope that the Vatican investigation into the legitimacy of the Sanctuary.
During the year, Italian Bishop Andrea Gemma denounced the Medjugorje claims about how 'the devil' and he predicted that 'soon the Vatican would intervene with something explosive to unmask once and for all who is behind this deception '. The phenomenon Well
beginning June 25, 1981, when six children - Mirjana Dragicevic, Marija Pavlovic, Vicka Ivankovic, Ivan Dragicevic, Ivanka Ivankovic and Jakov Colo - told a priest they had seen the Virgin on a hillside near their town.
Three Ecclesiastical commissions are not reflected that confirm their claims and the bishops of the former Yugoslavia finally declared that 'could not be said that it was supernatural apparitions or revelations'.
In 1985, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger - now Pope Benedict - banned pilgrimages to the place, but this has been largely ignored. Instead the seers have grown economically, as a result of their statements - and with them also the country that has prospered thanks to the 'Madonna gold rush'.
Some today own smart executive houses with immaculate gardens, double garage, security gates and one of them has a tennis court.
They also own expensive cars and have married - one of them, Ivan Dragicevic, a former American beauty queen.
http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/5710/pa...20vlasicki0.jpg
http://laici.forumcommunity.net/?t=6025749
Florida Small Estate With Will
seen by lay people, the' indictment of the Bishop-exorcist. Monsignor Gemma
Medjugorje, l ' indictment of the Bishop-exorcist. Monsignor Gemma: "The apparitions of the Virgin Mary? All false: the seers are lying under the inspiration of Satan to enrich themselves economically "
Gianluca Barile
CITY 'OF THE VATICAN - A mix of economic interests and evil, with the alleged visionaries (pictured) and their employees directly involved in earnings for all 'very high flow of pilgrimages and trips to town, and the Devil happy to sow discord among the faithful and more convinced of the veracity of the apparitions in Medjugorje and the Church has always been skeptical about what he called several times, the mouth of two bishops Mostar in the time, 'a great deception'. Monsignor Andrea Gemma, former Bishop of Isernia-Venafro exorcists among the greatest living, does not mince words: none other than the Virgin Mary in Medjugorje have appeared so far, only rivers of money. A serious charge, which gives the figure not only of courage but also of spiritual and moral character of the prelate, who has agreed to answer questions of 'Petrus' on a story so thorny.
Therefore, Sir, how to define Medjugorje?
'E' is perfectly diabolical, around which revolve many underground interests. The Holy Church, the only one to have a say through the mouth of the Bishop of Mostar, has already said publicly and officially, that the Madonna has never appeared at Medjugorje and that this whole staging is the work of the devil. "
You talk about 'interests underground' ... What?
"I refer to the 'dung of the devil', money, and what it is, otherwise? In Medjugorje everything happens in function of money: Pilgrimages, overnights, sales of gadgets. Thus, abusing the good faith of those poor people who go there thinking of getting to the Madonna, the false seers have financial systems, they marry and lead a wealthy life to say the least. Just think, one of them organizes America, with a direct economic gain, dozens of pilgrims every year. Here, they do not seem right of the people disinterested. Indeed, together with lenders side by this sensational scam, obviously have an interest material to pretend to see and talk with the Virgin Mary. "
Bishop Gemma, his is a court without appeal?
"Could it be otherwise? These people who claim to be in contact with Madonna, but in reality are guided exclusively by Satan, are creating havoc and confusion among the faithful for interest and benefit absolutely despicable. You think, then, to disobedience that fed into the Church: their spiritual guide, a Franciscan monk expelled from the Order and suspended divinis, continues to administer invalidly the sacraments. And many priests around the world, despite the express prohibition of the Holy See, not desist from organizing and taking part in pilgrimages to Medjugorje destination. It 's a shame! That's why I speak of a mix of personal and evil: the false seers and their assistants pocket money, and the Devil creates discord among the faithful and the Church, the most ardent believers, in fact, do not listen to the Church, which - I repeat - has warned from the outset by the mendacity of the apparitions of Medjugorje. "
And if indeed the alleged visionaries saw the Virgin Mary?
"In reality they would see Satan in disguise. Because Satan has everything interest in the Church split the two opposing currents of the 'pro' and 'against' Medjugorje. And then, there would be nothing new: the same St. Paul says that the devil can appear as angel of light, and that can disguise themselves. He did, for example, St. Gemma Galgani. But beyond its disguise, the Devil has already spoken and I can assure you that he is to inspire false visionaries from the outset with the lure of easy money. "
These visionaries do not really like ... The
"For heaven's sake! Just look at how they behave: they are disobedient to the Church, they should retire to private life and instead continue to propagate their lies for profit, making the game the Devil! My thoughts go immediately to St. Bernadette, the visionary of Lourdes, this sweet creature wanted to undress her life and chose to dress as a nun to serve the Lord. Instead, the impostors of Medjugorje continue to live comfortably in the world without showing any kind of love neither God nor the Church. "
Medjugorje supporters point out that the Holy See has never expressed on the subject.
"This is another lie! As I mentioned earlier, the Vatican banned pilgrimages by priests in that place and has already spoken through the mouth of two successive bishops of Mostar in recent years, the Monsignori Zanic and Peric, I spoke personally and I have always expressed their doubts. See, even to Fatima and Lourdes is it that the Holy See expressed directly on the Marian apparitions. Why, then, would make an exception in this case? The truth is that when talking about the Bishop of Mostar, about the Church of Christ, and him, which is expressed with the authority conferred by the Vatican, that we must heed. So, the Holy See has always expressed with the words of the Bishop of Mostar, pointing out that Medjugorje is a fraud buster. But will a secret. You will see that soon the Vatican will intervene with something explosive to unmask once and for all who is behind this scam. "
The same advocates point out that at Medjugorje there is an annual record of conversions and miracles ...
"It 's a stretch. And who has all these conversions? See, if a person is converted, it is because it has a certain predisposition, because one look inside, because he receive the gift of the Spirit. The place where this conversion is all relative. Think of St. Paul was converted on the road, and then we should do, get everyone on the street and wait to be converted? As for miracles, I'll tell a personal anecdote. Do I have the intercession of Our Lady of the Rosary of Pompeii, the miraculous healing of a person in my family, and yet I know that Madonna has ever appeared in Pompeii. Here, to believe, to be healed inside and out, do not necessarily see that Mary is made. "
What you know, Pope Benedict XVI as he opinion of Medjugorje?
"I'll just point out that it was he, as Cardinal Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, to issue notes of the official adverse Medjugorje, such as forbidding priests and religious to make a pilgrimage to that land. Do you .... " Instead
it is said that John Paul II was convinced of the truth of the apparitions.
"An unproven legend, given that these are the personal opinions and do not represent in any way a magisterial act".
http://www.papanews.it/dettaglio_interviste.asp?IdNews=7499 
Medjugorje, l ' indictment of the Bishop-exorcist. Monsignor Gemma: "The apparitions of the Virgin Mary? All false: the seers are lying under the inspiration of Satan to enrich themselves economically "
Gianluca Barile
CITY 'OF THE VATICAN - A mix of economic interests and evil, with the alleged visionaries (pictured) and their employees directly involved in earnings for all 'very high flow of pilgrimages and trips to town, and the Devil happy to sow discord among the faithful and more convinced of the veracity of the apparitions in Medjugorje and the Church has always been skeptical about what he called several times, the mouth of two bishops Mostar in the time, 'a great deception'. Monsignor Andrea Gemma, former Bishop of Isernia-Venafro exorcists among the greatest living, does not mince words: none other than the Virgin Mary in Medjugorje have appeared so far, only rivers of money. A serious charge, which gives the figure not only of courage but also of spiritual and moral character of the prelate, who has agreed to answer questions of 'Petrus' on a story so thorny.
Therefore, Sir, how to define Medjugorje?
'E' is perfectly diabolical, around which revolve many underground interests. The Holy Church, the only one to have a say through the mouth of the Bishop of Mostar, has already said publicly and officially, that the Madonna has never appeared at Medjugorje and that this whole staging is the work of the devil. "
You talk about 'interests underground' ... What?
"I refer to the 'dung of the devil', money, and what it is, otherwise? In Medjugorje everything happens in function of money: Pilgrimages, overnights, sales of gadgets. Thus, abusing the good faith of those poor people who go there thinking of getting to the Madonna, the false seers have financial systems, they marry and lead a wealthy life to say the least. Just think, one of them organizes America, with a direct economic gain, dozens of pilgrims every year. Here, they do not seem right of the people disinterested. Indeed, together with lenders side by this sensational scam, obviously have an interest material to pretend to see and talk with the Virgin Mary. "
Bishop Gemma, his is a court without appeal?
"Could it be otherwise? These people who claim to be in contact with Madonna, but in reality are guided exclusively by Satan, are creating havoc and confusion among the faithful for interest and benefit absolutely despicable. You think, then, to disobedience that fed into the Church: their spiritual guide, a Franciscan monk expelled from the Order and suspended divinis, continues to administer invalidly the sacraments. And many priests around the world, despite the express prohibition of the Holy See, not desist from organizing and taking part in pilgrimages to Medjugorje destination. It 's a shame! That's why I speak of a mix of personal and evil: the false seers and their assistants pocket money, and the Devil creates discord among the faithful and the Church, the most ardent believers, in fact, do not listen to the Church, which - I repeat - has warned from the outset by the mendacity of the apparitions of Medjugorje. "
And if indeed the alleged visionaries saw the Virgin Mary?
"In reality they would see Satan in disguise. Because Satan has everything interest in the Church split the two opposing currents of the 'pro' and 'against' Medjugorje. And then, there would be nothing new: the same St. Paul says that the devil can appear as angel of light, and that can disguise themselves. He did, for example, St. Gemma Galgani. But beyond its disguise, the Devil has already spoken and I can assure you that he is to inspire false visionaries from the outset with the lure of easy money. "
These visionaries do not really like ... The
"For heaven's sake! Just look at how they behave: they are disobedient to the Church, they should retire to private life and instead continue to propagate their lies for profit, making the game the Devil! My thoughts go immediately to St. Bernadette, the visionary of Lourdes, this sweet creature wanted to undress her life and chose to dress as a nun to serve the Lord. Instead, the impostors of Medjugorje continue to live comfortably in the world without showing any kind of love neither God nor the Church. "
Medjugorje supporters point out that the Holy See has never expressed on the subject.
"This is another lie! As I mentioned earlier, the Vatican banned pilgrimages by priests in that place and has already spoken through the mouth of two successive bishops of Mostar in recent years, the Monsignori Zanic and Peric, I spoke personally and I have always expressed their doubts. See, even to Fatima and Lourdes is it that the Holy See expressed directly on the Marian apparitions. Why, then, would make an exception in this case? The truth is that when talking about the Bishop of Mostar, about the Church of Christ, and him, which is expressed with the authority conferred by the Vatican, that we must heed. So, the Holy See has always expressed with the words of the Bishop of Mostar, pointing out that Medjugorje is a fraud buster. But will a secret. You will see that soon the Vatican will intervene with something explosive to unmask once and for all who is behind this scam. "
The same advocates point out that at Medjugorje there is an annual record of conversions and miracles ...
"It 's a stretch. And who has all these conversions? See, if a person is converted, it is because it has a certain predisposition, because one look inside, because he receive the gift of the Spirit. The place where this conversion is all relative. Think of St. Paul was converted on the road, and then we should do, get everyone on the street and wait to be converted? As for miracles, I'll tell a personal anecdote. Do I have the intercession of Our Lady of the Rosary of Pompeii, the miraculous healing of a person in my family, and yet I know that Madonna has ever appeared in Pompeii. Here, to believe, to be healed inside and out, do not necessarily see that Mary is made. "
What you know, Pope Benedict XVI as he opinion of Medjugorje?
"I'll just point out that it was he, as Cardinal Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, to issue notes of the official adverse Medjugorje, such as forbidding priests and religious to make a pilgrimage to that land. Do you .... " Instead
it is said that John Paul II was convinced of the truth of the apparitions.
"An unproven legend, given that these are the personal opinions and do not represent in any way a magisterial act".
http://www.papanews.it/dettaglio_interviste.asp?IdNews=7499
Crossing Atlanic By Motorboat
MEDJUGORJE-FORUM FROM CATHOLIC TRADITION
THE FORUM OF CATHOLIC TRADITION A
my brief comment on Monsignor Gemma. It is no longer the bishop of Isernia: it is not subject to undue pressure. To this can afford to speak out against false apparitions of Medjugorje.
wish here to suggest reading the book, Medjugorje is completely false, Marco Corvi, unfortunately published editions by Age Dell'Acquarioo because no other publisher would accept. In the book, which deliberately does not address any topic closely related to the faith (I suspect that the author is an atheist), we conduct an honest and accurate based largely on pro-medjugoriane sources, highlighting the amount of irreconcilable contradictions, absurdities and untruths . This book had the compliments of vesccovo Duvno of Mostar.
About twenty years ago, hearing about Mejugorje oer the first time I wondered: how the Blessed Virgin appears every day, and I was not even aware? So thanks to a friend I got the message text of those seven years. But in reading ... What trivia! What a mess! What a boring! I'd say that the Blessed Virgin can be awkward to shower with all these words? Why the BV has to be so banal and repetitive? Why must even thank the self-styled visionaries? With the tens and tens of thousands of apparitions, messages, secrets, at times can be booked at any place, pre-fabricated! So I became allergic to the apparitions (which I was devoted to Fatima!) For many years, until I discovered by chance by Truva articles in English on the internet that fraud was indeed huge and the first to realize it was just the vescvovi Mostar.
Even if they were not satanic at least are too many, there is a strong inflation appearances:
The first "apparition" occurred June 24, 1981 and to date there are more than 40,000
And then in spring 1982: the First Commission of Inquiry into the events in Medjugorje issue a first report no.
March 23, 1984: The bishop of Mostar, Pavao Zanic says not to approve that priests and lay Catholics 'organize' pilgrimages to Medjugorje.
October 11, 1984: The bishop of Mostar, Pavao Zanic, said: "I declare that everything is a big scam, a deception ... there are 'appearances' Madonna ... I think there is the devil. "
Osservatore Romano reported the text of two.
ecumenism is rampant in several steps (the alleged Madonna lashes out against those who deny the faith of Muslims, etc..), For one thing, but years ago I read a really good dossier that carried parts and absurd posts. Moreover
just read the beginning of the apparitions of the story is puzzling reactions displaced kids! The Mother of God does not use scare the visionaries! Also at Lourdes or Fatima after the initial disturbance (never fear, however, on the ground writhing in Medjugorje) immediately takes over an inner peace and Madonna reassures children with the loving gestures and paro
.
http://www.tradizione.biz/forum/viewtopic.php?p=98415&sid=6e01cb38dca99251734183c043a37692 
THE FORUM OF CATHOLIC TRADITION A
my brief comment on Monsignor Gemma. It is no longer the bishop of Isernia: it is not subject to undue pressure. To this can afford to speak out against false apparitions of Medjugorje.
wish here to suggest reading the book, Medjugorje is completely false, Marco Corvi, unfortunately published editions by Age Dell'Acquarioo because no other publisher would accept. In the book, which deliberately does not address any topic closely related to the faith (I suspect that the author is an atheist), we conduct an honest and accurate based largely on pro-medjugoriane sources, highlighting the amount of irreconcilable contradictions, absurdities and untruths . This book had the compliments of vesccovo Duvno of Mostar.
About twenty years ago, hearing about Mejugorje oer the first time I wondered: how the Blessed Virgin appears every day, and I was not even aware? So thanks to a friend I got the message text of those seven years. But in reading ... What trivia! What a mess! What a boring! I'd say that the Blessed Virgin can be awkward to shower with all these words? Why the BV has to be so banal and repetitive? Why must even thank the self-styled visionaries? With the tens and tens of thousands of apparitions, messages, secrets, at times can be booked at any place, pre-fabricated! So I became allergic to the apparitions (which I was devoted to Fatima!) For many years, until I discovered by chance by Truva articles in English on the internet that fraud was indeed huge and the first to realize it was just the vescvovi Mostar.
Even if they were not satanic at least are too many, there is a strong inflation appearances:
The first "apparition" occurred June 24, 1981 and to date there are more than 40,000
And then in spring 1982: the First Commission of Inquiry into the events in Medjugorje issue a first report no.
March 23, 1984: The bishop of Mostar, Pavao Zanic says not to approve that priests and lay Catholics 'organize' pilgrimages to Medjugorje.
October 11, 1984: The bishop of Mostar, Pavao Zanic, said: "I declare that everything is a big scam, a deception ... there are 'appearances' Madonna ... I think there is the devil. "
Osservatore Romano reported the text of two.
ecumenism is rampant in several steps (the alleged Madonna lashes out against those who deny the faith of Muslims, etc..), For one thing, but years ago I read a really good dossier that carried parts and absurd posts. Moreover
just read the beginning of the apparitions of the story is puzzling reactions displaced kids! The Mother of God does not use scare the visionaries! Also at Lourdes or Fatima after the initial disturbance (never fear, however, on the ground writhing in Medjugorje) immediately takes over an inner peace and Madonna reassures children with the loving gestures and paro
.
http://www.tradizione.biz/forum/viewtopic.php?p=98415&sid=6e01cb38dca99251734183c043a37692
Wednesday, May 6, 2009
Digestive Upset When Visit Florida
MARIJA, VLASIC and false messages (Appendix: "Vlasic Question: Answer to Father Livio Fanzaga)
Photo: Father Tomislav Vlasic
MARIJA, VLASIC and false messages (Appendix: "Vlasic Question: Reply to Father Livio Fanzaga)
Marija Pavlović, twenty-two, and Father Tomislav Vlasic, all 'time of the events recounted in this page is not
un'illazione or, even less, an insinuation, but a fact: one of the visionaries, Marija Pavlovic, he once admitted, in writing and in terms that we shall see, and he left his spiritual director attributed to Our Lady of fake messages received through her own.
To tell this story is completely necessary to premise that the six visionaries "first generation" was added in December 1982, Jelena Vasilj, aged 10, who claimed to have the interior locutions, the "communications", by the Madonna and, more rarely, of actual appearances.
Another character who must now be introduced is, in fact, who was the first spiritual director of the visionaries, Franciscan Father Tomislav Vlasic.
Here's what happened: March 25, 1988 Vlasic wrote a long open letter in which he makes known the foundation of a new religious community and directed by him, he said, required specifically by Madonna [See Ogledalo Pravda. Biskupski ordinarijat Mostaru u or u navodnim ukazanjima the porukama Međugorju (The Diocesan Chancery of Mostar on the alleged apparitions and messages of Medjugorje), Mostar, 2001, pp.28-29]
That letter, the next month, was published in Milan ( in a 17-page pamphlet entitled A call in the Marian) on the initiative of that community, who had assumed the name Kraljice Mira, potpuno tvoji, while Marija k Isusu ("Queen of Peace, we are entirely yours; to Jesus through Mary" ) and took office in Mentone Avenue 45, in Parma.
dell'opuscoletto The printing and distribution, "in all major languages" [A call in the Marian, p.1], was entrusted to the 'Association of Friends of Medjugorje "located, then as now, in Via Nirone 9, Milan (then chaired by Mrs Angela Pecorari Square).
the publication in question Vlasic, retracing the path of the birth of that community, writes:
The visionary of Medjugorje Jelena Vasilj who has visions and interior locutions, came to me May 28, 1983, and asked me to attend apparition of the Mother of God, that she would have in his house. He told me that Madonna wanted to confide something.
I witnessed the apparition. Our Lady, through the visionary, he spoke to her: she asked me to join a prayer group made up mostly of young men who were ready to dedicate themselves completely to you, as a priest and asked me to address the group on the road.
Before the group began to have regular meetings, Marija Pavlović, one of the six visionaries, Our Lady appears that since 1981, wanted to see if this really was a project of the Madonna, and asked questions during an appearance at Madonna. He received a positive response: Our Lady said that it was his project, and recommended to the six visionaries, according to their ability to participate in the prayer group. Since then Maria is a member of this group. [A call in the Marian, pp. 3-4] In
Later, Jesus and Mary would have directly asked the same Franciscan and the visionaries (and later to a German acquaintance of Vlasic, named Agnes Heupel) to transform the prayer group in a true religious community: Starting from
'autumn of 1985 our Lord and our Heavenly Mother told me about the heart in a special way. I have also given special messages through some visionaries They asked me total renunciation and readily available to their plan.
[...] On December 7, 1986, and prayed the rosary together meditating on the Joyful Mysteries, Jesus gave a message to Agnes, in which he announced the birth of a new community in which we have to offer both to God, as Clare and Francis. [A call in the Marian, pp. 4-5]
And we come to the decisive point
I also asked an external confirmation. Among other things I asked you a question through Marija Pavlović Madonna. Marija has led the Lady's reply of 8 March 1987: "This plan of God" [A call in the Marian, p. 6]
The community of Vlasic was then opened and settled, as stated, in Parma. We entered the same
Marija, 21 April 1988 that he wrote and signed a statement (published in the same pamphlet, a call in the Marian).
In it, the seer said the following quote, by expressly reference to the open letter of Father Tomislav Vlasic:
I feel I need to say a few words regarding this information who wrote Father Tomislav (Marija so she knows the text written by Vlasic, nda)
Since [...] its inception I have inserted the prayer group, led by Our Lady Jelena Vasilj and Father Tomislav Vlasic.
[...] I saw that the messages that came through Jelena clear and complete messages that Our Lady gave to me.
Earlier this year I retired in silence with some people from that group prayer. One day, some time before departure, we first apparition asked Our Lady to give us the light in order to understand the program that you had given through Father Tomislav Vlasic and Agnes Heupel.
Our Lady came, she was happy. She prayed over us and says: "Dear children, I give you a special gift, the gift of freedom so that I can decide for God bless the free decision of each of you." So I understood that I could make up my mind on this road since I was waiting for an opportunity to be able to withdraw in silence and prayer.
As you can see, the Madonna has made a program for the Community "Queen of Peace, totally Yours, Maria Jesus", and lead this community through Father Tomislav and Agnes, through which come posts for the Community.
am in the Community for over a month and a half ... [A call in the Marian, pp. 15-16]
In essence, Marija does not dispute the veracity of the open letter written by Vlasic (which, as we have seen, the explicit approval of the birth of the Community by Madonna: Marija led the response of the Madonna dell ' March 8, 1987: "This plan of God").
the beginning of next July, a U.S. journalist, Suzanne Rini, sent by the Catholic periodical Fidelity, arrives in Italy and calling to account Vlasic father of a rough affair that concerns (birth, eleven years first, the son of Sister Rufina: See in this regard, this same site, the page "And Our Lady said: Thank so much Father Tomislav: guides you so well!"). The Franciscan said unconnected with the facts.
Whatever the case, a few days later, on July 11, 1988, something unexpected occurs: Marija (perhaps fearing that he compromised by giving the support of the Madonna with a brother involved in a scandal?) Writes in Croatian language and in Italian, a new and resounding statement.
of this press is not usually track publications in favor of Medjugorje (Laurentin, which oversaw an annual update on events related to these "appearances", spoke in Latest News No 8, 1989, but eliminated any reference to it in his main work is more widespread, the Virgin appears in Medjugorje?, Whose final edition dates back to 1991).
Marija's statement, however, been fully reported in a publication of the Curia of Mostar: Ogledalo Pravda. Biskupski ordinarijat Mostaru u or u navodnim ukazanjima the porukama Međugorju (The Diocesan Chancery of Mostar on the alleged apparitions and messages of Medjugorje), Mostar, 2001, pp. 30-32.
Here, in translation:
I feel a moral duty to make the following statements before God, the Virgin Mary and the Church of Jesus Christ:
From the book "A Call in the Marian and the testimony that bears my signature, it shows that I have given an answer to a question of Our Lady of Tomislav Vlasic. Such a response would be: "This is God's plan", that therefore I, as a Part of the Virgin Mary, I would have given confirmation to Tomislav Vlasic and explicit permission for this work and for the program began in Italy with the prayer group in Medjugorje.
now declare that he never asked the Madonna no confirmation for this Work initiated by Tomislav V. and Agnes Heupel. I never explicitly asked the Madonna about me, if I take part in this opera and I have never received any endorsement by Madonna on the group, except that each of us should be free to make a choice for their lives.
From the book and the testimony that bears my signature below that Madonna has shown me that the community and the program Tomislav V. and Agnes Heupel is the way of God for me and for others. Now I repeat that he never received nor given to Madonna by Tomislav nor any other person, such a confirmation and approval by the Madonna.
My first testimony, published in Croatian and Italian does not correspond to the truth. Personally I had no desire to make a statement in writing. Tomislav V. advised me, insisting several times, to write, as a seer, a witness expected from the world.
I also declare that the contents of the letter as presented and my signature pose some questions. For now, all the questions I can only give this answer, which I give, I repeat, before God, the Virgin and before the Church of Jesus Christ: "Everything that can be understood as a response and an explicit confirmation of this work of Tomislav V. and Agnes Heupel, by Madonna through me, absolutely does not correspond to the truth and also does not correspond to the truth the idea that I had spontaneous desire to write this testimony. " What I consider moral duty
the following statements, before God, the Virgin and before the Church:
After seven years of daily apparitions, after the experience more intimate that I have together and the prudence of the Madonna, after all that I remember the advice of Our Lady and Our Lady's response to my questions personally, I can state that does not stand the idea that the plan of Heaven and the overall message of Our Lady in Medjugorje have for me, as a sacred process and desired result of Our Lady, this Society and the program started in Italy by Tomislav V. and Agnes Heupel.
E 'must add to this statement that the daily apparitions continue.
I sign this statement before the Blessed Sacrament and the fate of all who are heart-related "work" of Our Lady of Medjugorje.
11/7/1988 Marija Pavlović
And here's the second side of the letter containing the signature of Marija Pavlović:
_________________________________________________________________________________________
APPENDIX:
VLASIC QUESTION: A RESPONSE Father Livio Fanzaga (8 / 9 / 2008)
's Sept. 8, 2008, following the release of the news of stringent punitive measures adopted by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith against Father Tomislav Vlasic, Radio Maria published on its website a letter from Marija, which we mentioned in the closing part on this page.
This is a very rare document, of which up to now, medjugoriani environments, there had hardly ever spoken.
Marija, who at the time, since February 1988, lived in Italy, at Parma, at the headquarters of the Community, published (it is mentioned in the article) two versions of the letter of July (just as it did with the Previous testimony in April), one in Italian (which is now made known by Radio Maria) and another one in Croatian (which is one to which I was previously remade me).
The two versions have significantly overlapping However, now that finally, after twenty years, is coming off the Italian version of a handwritten, it seems only right to use that.
So I will.
Father Livio Fanzaga in the document released on September 8, 2008, accompanying the letter Marija, states:
"In the spring of 1988 P. Tomislav Vlasic, in a public letter addressed to the whole world, said that the community he founded with Agnes Heupel was commissioned by the Queen of Peace and in this regard called into question the claims of the visionary Maria Pavlovic. This flatly contradicted a public statement, addressed to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and stated that there was no link between the Community of Father Tomislav Vlasic and the apparitions of Medjugorje. The thinly disguised attempt to accredit the authority of the Virgin Mary so that the community was cut off, even if it is repeated in subsequent years. "
On the contrary, it is sufficient to read the letter (and not merely, as many do, from father to comment Livio) to realize that it is above all a serious admission of liability by the same Marija, who admits to having let Vlasic manipulated her and Madonna. How does
father Livio writing "that there was no link between the Community of Father Tomislav Vlasic and the apparitions of Medjugorje, "when in that same letter, Maria admits that, just as the" seers "of Medjugorje, she signed that false statement, at the request of Vlasic?
Narcotics these other words of Father Livio," the sly attempt to accredit with the authority of the Virgin Mary that the community was so crushed. "How do you present the story in these terms, when, in the" insidious attempt ", Marija was crucial and conscious accomplice, guilty confession?
Marija begins like this:
"A call from the texts in the Marian and the testimony that bears my signature (emphasis mine, nda) it appears that I would have taken in response to a request of Our Lady of Father Tomislav: This is God's plan "
Therefore, the visionary acknowledged signing a testimony endorsing a false message of Madonna
The stresses in paragraph 3:
"from the texts and the testimony that bears my signature (emphasis mine, nda), it seems to me that Madonna would show that the community and the program P. Tomislav and Agnes Heupel were the way of God for me and for others "
paragraph 4 confirms for the umpteenth time:
" The witness that which is published in Italian does not correspond to the truth about the first Initiative
(mind you that Marija is not making a distinction between the content of the testimony of the witness in Italian and Croatian. Simply put, the Italian version of this letter, is making an explicit reference to written testimony in the same language, while in the Croatian version of the same letter, states that the "no match to the truth" about the witness is in Italian and Croatian Moje prvo svjedočanstvo, Takva kakvo je na hrvatskom objavljeno the talijanskom jeziku, it odgovara istinisi [See "Ogledalo Pravda. Biskupski ordinarijat u Mostaru or navodnim ukazanjima the porukama Međugorju u "(The Diocesan Chancery of Mostar on the alleged apparitions and messages of Medjugorje), Mostar, 2001, pg. 30].
And is not that the Vlasic had put a gun to his head to force her to sign. Simply continues Marija:
"Father Tomislav suggested I write as a visionary with the insistence of a witness that the world was waiting for."
It 's also the case of aggravating evidence here: we have seen, the false testimony had been signed by Marija April 21, 1988 and then, as the letter goes back to' July 11, the "seer" was an accomplice, Rea confesses to Vlasic, for about three months. In paragraph 5
Marija expresses the awareness that this shadow story throws at her and writes:
"I must also declare that the wording as presented and my signature raise some questions"
Well, that gives justification?
No, it is absolutely no justification, as well as to continue:
"for the moment I can give all the possible questions only answer this, do that, I repeat, before God, before the Virgin Mary and the Church of Jesus Christ: "All that can be pecepito as confirmation and explicit approval of the Work of Father Tomislav and Agnes Heupel by Madonna through me is totally foreign to the truth, and truth is foreign to the thought I have had a spontaneous desire to write this testimony. "
In essence merely repeats the falsehood of the message and its connivance, without explanation.
And here ends my analysis of the letter.
only add the comment the Curia of Mostar to this story, taken from the number 8-9 (August-September) of 2008 Crkva na kamenu, pastoral bulletin of the diocese, which reads:
'The affirmation of Tomislav and "witness" Marija was radically denied in his statement handwritten on July 11, 1988, "before God, before the Virgin Mary and the Church of Jesus Christ": "Everything that can be understood as a direct confirmation and approval of this work by Tomislav and Agnes Heupel, by Madonna, through me, absolutely does not correspond to the truth, as it is not true that I had the idea of \u200b\u200bhaving spontaneously desire to write this testimony, "as Marija.
We know that no lie is the truth and the lies we see that the above well-known in Medjugorje have also been attributed to Our Lady.
[Crkva na kamenu, 8-9, 2008, p . 28, see also the published version online]
Alongside this discussion, you may notice that Father Livy, in his report, added: "There is the fact that he presumptuous definition (Vlasic) gives himself a "spiritual guide of the visionaries."
is not a particularly important issue, but, in fact, the declarations of Vlasic, there would be evidence contrary to the statements of Father Livio.
Father Rene Laurentin, who attended regularly Medjugorje since 1983 (and therefore is the only one of the historians of these "appearances" to have been able to see for myself what was the relationship between Vlasic and boys) in a section significantly entitled "A new spiritual guide, "writes:
" Tomislav [...] is liaise with the visionaries [...] It becomes the "spiritual director" and will be the title that will keep the parish "[R. Laurentin, story and message of the apparitions of Medjugorje, Queriniana, 1987, p. 1990]
On 30 October 1984, the bishop of Mostar, Pavao Zanic, issues a report called The current position, unofficial, of the Episcopal Curia of Mostar towards the events of Medjugorje.
In it, in par. 10, Tomislav Vlasic comes from his bishop explicitly "spiritual father of the" visionaries ".
And then we have ... Our Lady's message of 28 February 1982: "You can thank both Tomislav because it will guide you so well "(And Our Lady said: Thank so much Father Tomislav: guides you so well!)
And sorry if it is little.
Marco Corvi
http://marcocorvaglia.blog.lastampa.it/mcor/il-messaggio-della-madonn.html 
Photo: Father Tomislav Vlasic
MARIJA, VLASIC and false messages (Appendix: "Vlasic Question: Reply to Father Livio Fanzaga)
Marija Pavlović, twenty-two, and Father Tomislav Vlasic, all 'time of the events recounted in this page is not
un'illazione or, even less, an insinuation, but a fact: one of the visionaries, Marija Pavlovic, he once admitted, in writing and in terms that we shall see, and he left his spiritual director attributed to Our Lady of fake messages received through her own.
To tell this story is completely necessary to premise that the six visionaries "first generation" was added in December 1982, Jelena Vasilj, aged 10, who claimed to have the interior locutions, the "communications", by the Madonna and, more rarely, of actual appearances.
Another character who must now be introduced is, in fact, who was the first spiritual director of the visionaries, Franciscan Father Tomislav Vlasic.
Here's what happened: March 25, 1988 Vlasic wrote a long open letter in which he makes known the foundation of a new religious community and directed by him, he said, required specifically by Madonna [See Ogledalo Pravda. Biskupski ordinarijat Mostaru u or u navodnim ukazanjima the porukama Međugorju (The Diocesan Chancery of Mostar on the alleged apparitions and messages of Medjugorje), Mostar, 2001, pp.28-29]
That letter, the next month, was published in Milan ( in a 17-page pamphlet entitled A call in the Marian) on the initiative of that community, who had assumed the name Kraljice Mira, potpuno tvoji, while Marija k Isusu ("Queen of Peace, we are entirely yours; to Jesus through Mary" ) and took office in Mentone Avenue 45, in Parma.
dell'opuscoletto The printing and distribution, "in all major languages" [A call in the Marian, p.1], was entrusted to the 'Association of Friends of Medjugorje "located, then as now, in Via Nirone 9, Milan (then chaired by Mrs Angela Pecorari Square).
the publication in question Vlasic, retracing the path of the birth of that community, writes:
The visionary of Medjugorje Jelena Vasilj who has visions and interior locutions, came to me May 28, 1983, and asked me to attend apparition of the Mother of God, that she would have in his house. He told me that Madonna wanted to confide something.
I witnessed the apparition. Our Lady, through the visionary, he spoke to her: she asked me to join a prayer group made up mostly of young men who were ready to dedicate themselves completely to you, as a priest and asked me to address the group on the road.
Before the group began to have regular meetings, Marija Pavlović, one of the six visionaries, Our Lady appears that since 1981, wanted to see if this really was a project of the Madonna, and asked questions during an appearance at Madonna. He received a positive response: Our Lady said that it was his project, and recommended to the six visionaries, according to their ability to participate in the prayer group. Since then Maria is a member of this group. [A call in the Marian, pp. 3-4] In
Later, Jesus and Mary would have directly asked the same Franciscan and the visionaries (and later to a German acquaintance of Vlasic, named Agnes Heupel) to transform the prayer group in a true religious community: Starting from
'autumn of 1985 our Lord and our Heavenly Mother told me about the heart in a special way. I have also given special messages through some visionaries They asked me total renunciation and readily available to their plan.
[...] On December 7, 1986, and prayed the rosary together meditating on the Joyful Mysteries, Jesus gave a message to Agnes, in which he announced the birth of a new community in which we have to offer both to God, as Clare and Francis. [A call in the Marian, pp. 4-5]
And we come to the decisive point
I also asked an external confirmation. Among other things I asked you a question through Marija Pavlović Madonna. Marija has led the Lady's reply of 8 March 1987: "This plan of God" [A call in the Marian, p. 6]
The community of Vlasic was then opened and settled, as stated, in Parma. We entered the same
Marija, 21 April 1988 that he wrote and signed a statement (published in the same pamphlet, a call in the Marian).
In it, the seer said the following quote, by expressly reference to the open letter of Father Tomislav Vlasic:
I feel I need to say a few words regarding this information who wrote Father Tomislav (Marija so she knows the text written by Vlasic, nda)
Since [...] its inception I have inserted the prayer group, led by Our Lady Jelena Vasilj and Father Tomislav Vlasic.
[...] I saw that the messages that came through Jelena clear and complete messages that Our Lady gave to me.
Earlier this year I retired in silence with some people from that group prayer. One day, some time before departure, we first apparition asked Our Lady to give us the light in order to understand the program that you had given through Father Tomislav Vlasic and Agnes Heupel.
Our Lady came, she was happy. She prayed over us and says: "Dear children, I give you a special gift, the gift of freedom so that I can decide for God bless the free decision of each of you." So I understood that I could make up my mind on this road since I was waiting for an opportunity to be able to withdraw in silence and prayer.
As you can see, the Madonna has made a program for the Community "Queen of Peace, totally Yours, Maria Jesus", and lead this community through Father Tomislav and Agnes, through which come posts for the Community.
am in the Community for over a month and a half ... [A call in the Marian, pp. 15-16]
In essence, Marija does not dispute the veracity of the open letter written by Vlasic (which, as we have seen, the explicit approval of the birth of the Community by Madonna: Marija led the response of the Madonna dell ' March 8, 1987: "This plan of God").
the beginning of next July, a U.S. journalist, Suzanne Rini, sent by the Catholic periodical Fidelity, arrives in Italy and calling to account Vlasic father of a rough affair that concerns (birth, eleven years first, the son of Sister Rufina: See in this regard, this same site, the page "And Our Lady said: Thank so much Father Tomislav: guides you so well!"). The Franciscan said unconnected with the facts.
Whatever the case, a few days later, on July 11, 1988, something unexpected occurs: Marija (perhaps fearing that he compromised by giving the support of the Madonna with a brother involved in a scandal?) Writes in Croatian language and in Italian, a new and resounding statement.
of this press is not usually track publications in favor of Medjugorje (Laurentin, which oversaw an annual update on events related to these "appearances", spoke in Latest News No 8, 1989, but eliminated any reference to it in his main work is more widespread, the Virgin appears in Medjugorje?, Whose final edition dates back to 1991).
Marija's statement, however, been fully reported in a publication of the Curia of Mostar: Ogledalo Pravda. Biskupski ordinarijat Mostaru u or u navodnim ukazanjima the porukama Međugorju (The Diocesan Chancery of Mostar on the alleged apparitions and messages of Medjugorje), Mostar, 2001, pp. 30-32.
Here, in translation:
I feel a moral duty to make the following statements before God, the Virgin Mary and the Church of Jesus Christ:
From the book "A Call in the Marian and the testimony that bears my signature, it shows that I have given an answer to a question of Our Lady of Tomislav Vlasic. Such a response would be: "This is God's plan", that therefore I, as a Part of the Virgin Mary, I would have given confirmation to Tomislav Vlasic and explicit permission for this work and for the program began in Italy with the prayer group in Medjugorje.
now declare that he never asked the Madonna no confirmation for this Work initiated by Tomislav V. and Agnes Heupel. I never explicitly asked the Madonna about me, if I take part in this opera and I have never received any endorsement by Madonna on the group, except that each of us should be free to make a choice for their lives.
From the book and the testimony that bears my signature below that Madonna has shown me that the community and the program Tomislav V. and Agnes Heupel is the way of God for me and for others. Now I repeat that he never received nor given to Madonna by Tomislav nor any other person, such a confirmation and approval by the Madonna.
My first testimony, published in Croatian and Italian does not correspond to the truth. Personally I had no desire to make a statement in writing. Tomislav V. advised me, insisting several times, to write, as a seer, a witness expected from the world.
I also declare that the contents of the letter as presented and my signature pose some questions. For now, all the questions I can only give this answer, which I give, I repeat, before God, the Virgin and before the Church of Jesus Christ: "Everything that can be understood as a response and an explicit confirmation of this work of Tomislav V. and Agnes Heupel, by Madonna through me, absolutely does not correspond to the truth and also does not correspond to the truth the idea that I had spontaneous desire to write this testimony. " What I consider moral duty
the following statements, before God, the Virgin and before the Church:
After seven years of daily apparitions, after the experience more intimate that I have together and the prudence of the Madonna, after all that I remember the advice of Our Lady and Our Lady's response to my questions personally, I can state that does not stand the idea that the plan of Heaven and the overall message of Our Lady in Medjugorje have for me, as a sacred process and desired result of Our Lady, this Society and the program started in Italy by Tomislav V. and Agnes Heupel.
E 'must add to this statement that the daily apparitions continue.
I sign this statement before the Blessed Sacrament and the fate of all who are heart-related "work" of Our Lady of Medjugorje.
11/7/1988 Marija Pavlović
And here's the second side of the letter containing the signature of Marija Pavlović:
_________________________________________________________________________________________
APPENDIX:
VLASIC QUESTION: A RESPONSE Father Livio Fanzaga (8 / 9 / 2008)
's Sept. 8, 2008, following the release of the news of stringent punitive measures adopted by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith against Father Tomislav Vlasic, Radio Maria published on its website a letter from Marija, which we mentioned in the closing part on this page.
This is a very rare document, of which up to now, medjugoriani environments, there had hardly ever spoken.
Marija, who at the time, since February 1988, lived in Italy, at Parma, at the headquarters of the Community, published (it is mentioned in the article) two versions of the letter of July (just as it did with the Previous testimony in April), one in Italian (which is now made known by Radio Maria) and another one in Croatian (which is one to which I was previously remade me).
The two versions have significantly overlapping However, now that finally, after twenty years, is coming off the Italian version of a handwritten, it seems only right to use that.
So I will.
Father Livio Fanzaga in the document released on September 8, 2008, accompanying the letter Marija, states:
"In the spring of 1988 P. Tomislav Vlasic, in a public letter addressed to the whole world, said that the community he founded with Agnes Heupel was commissioned by the Queen of Peace and in this regard called into question the claims of the visionary Maria Pavlovic. This flatly contradicted a public statement, addressed to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and stated that there was no link between the Community of Father Tomislav Vlasic and the apparitions of Medjugorje. The thinly disguised attempt to accredit the authority of the Virgin Mary so that the community was cut off, even if it is repeated in subsequent years. "
On the contrary, it is sufficient to read the letter (and not merely, as many do, from father to comment Livio) to realize that it is above all a serious admission of liability by the same Marija, who admits to having let Vlasic manipulated her and Madonna. How does
father Livio writing "that there was no link between the Community of Father Tomislav Vlasic and the apparitions of Medjugorje, "when in that same letter, Maria admits that, just as the" seers "of Medjugorje, she signed that false statement, at the request of Vlasic?
Narcotics these other words of Father Livio," the sly attempt to accredit with the authority of the Virgin Mary that the community was so crushed. "How do you present the story in these terms, when, in the" insidious attempt ", Marija was crucial and conscious accomplice, guilty confession?
Marija begins like this:
"A call from the texts in the Marian and the testimony that bears my signature (emphasis mine, nda) it appears that I would have taken in response to a request of Our Lady of Father Tomislav: This is God's plan "
Therefore, the visionary acknowledged signing a testimony endorsing a false message of Madonna
The stresses in paragraph 3:
"from the texts and the testimony that bears my signature (emphasis mine, nda), it seems to me that Madonna would show that the community and the program P. Tomislav and Agnes Heupel were the way of God for me and for others "
paragraph 4 confirms for the umpteenth time:
" The witness that which is published in Italian does not correspond to the truth about the first Initiative
(mind you that Marija is not making a distinction between the content of the testimony of the witness in Italian and Croatian. Simply put, the Italian version of this letter, is making an explicit reference to written testimony in the same language, while in the Croatian version of the same letter, states that the "no match to the truth" about the witness is in Italian and Croatian Moje prvo svjedočanstvo, Takva kakvo je na hrvatskom objavljeno the talijanskom jeziku, it odgovara istinisi [See "Ogledalo Pravda. Biskupski ordinarijat u Mostaru or navodnim ukazanjima the porukama Međugorju u "(The Diocesan Chancery of Mostar on the alleged apparitions and messages of Medjugorje), Mostar, 2001, pg. 30].
And is not that the Vlasic had put a gun to his head to force her to sign. Simply continues Marija:
"Father Tomislav suggested I write as a visionary with the insistence of a witness that the world was waiting for."
It 's also the case of aggravating evidence here: we have seen, the false testimony had been signed by Marija April 21, 1988 and then, as the letter goes back to' July 11, the "seer" was an accomplice, Rea confesses to Vlasic, for about three months. In paragraph 5
Marija expresses the awareness that this shadow story throws at her and writes:
"I must also declare that the wording as presented and my signature raise some questions"
Well, that gives justification?
No, it is absolutely no justification, as well as to continue:
"for the moment I can give all the possible questions only answer this, do that, I repeat, before God, before the Virgin Mary and the Church of Jesus Christ: "All that can be pecepito as confirmation and explicit approval of the Work of Father Tomislav and Agnes Heupel by Madonna through me is totally foreign to the truth, and truth is foreign to the thought I have had a spontaneous desire to write this testimony. "
In essence merely repeats the falsehood of the message and its connivance, without explanation.
And here ends my analysis of the letter.
only add the comment the Curia of Mostar to this story, taken from the number 8-9 (August-September) of 2008 Crkva na kamenu, pastoral bulletin of the diocese, which reads:
'The affirmation of Tomislav and "witness" Marija was radically denied in his statement handwritten on July 11, 1988, "before God, before the Virgin Mary and the Church of Jesus Christ": "Everything that can be understood as a direct confirmation and approval of this work by Tomislav and Agnes Heupel, by Madonna, through me, absolutely does not correspond to the truth, as it is not true that I had the idea of \u200b\u200bhaving spontaneously desire to write this testimony, "as Marija.
We know that no lie is the truth and the lies we see that the above well-known in Medjugorje have also been attributed to Our Lady.
[Crkva na kamenu, 8-9, 2008, p . 28, see also the published version online]
Alongside this discussion, you may notice that Father Livy, in his report, added: "There is the fact that he presumptuous definition (Vlasic) gives himself a "spiritual guide of the visionaries."
is not a particularly important issue, but, in fact, the declarations of Vlasic, there would be evidence contrary to the statements of Father Livio.
Father Rene Laurentin, who attended regularly Medjugorje since 1983 (and therefore is the only one of the historians of these "appearances" to have been able to see for myself what was the relationship between Vlasic and boys) in a section significantly entitled "A new spiritual guide, "writes:
" Tomislav [...] is liaise with the visionaries [...] It becomes the "spiritual director" and will be the title that will keep the parish "[R. Laurentin, story and message of the apparitions of Medjugorje, Queriniana, 1987, p. 1990]
On 30 October 1984, the bishop of Mostar, Pavao Zanic, issues a report called The current position, unofficial, of the Episcopal Curia of Mostar towards the events of Medjugorje.
In it, in par. 10, Tomislav Vlasic comes from his bishop explicitly "spiritual father of the" visionaries ".
And then we have ... Our Lady's message of 28 February 1982: "You can thank both Tomislav because it will guide you so well "(And Our Lady said: Thank so much Father Tomislav: guides you so well!)
And sorry if it is little.
Marco Corvi
http://marcocorvaglia.blog.lastampa.it/mcor/il-messaggio-della-madonn.html
Does Costco Deliver Mattresses
Medjugorje visionary Marija Pavlovic has lied at least once
Photo: Marija Pavlovic
25 March
Medjugorje visionary Marija Pavlovic has lied at least once
Marija Pavlovic
published on the website of Radio Maria, the letters written and signed by Marija Pavlovic and unequivocally demonstrate irrefutably that the self-styled seer has lied at least once attaches, under pressure Tomislav Vlasic, the so-called "Lady" blessing on the community, "Queen of Peace, founded by Franciscan, now suspended divinis, and his former girlfriend Agnes Heupel. In
clumsy attempt to eliminate any link between Pavlovic and Vlasic, Father Livio Fanzaga provided a valuable record that confirms what Marco Corvi had already published a month ago on his blog.
The letters (a manuscript, the other typed) refer to the statements that she released a pamphlet called the Marian year in which - Referring to the open letter of Tomislav Vlasic in which he wrote, "I posed a question to Madonna through Marija Pavlović. Marija has led the Lady's reply of 8 March 1987: "This plan of God" - the self-styled seer said:
"I feel I need to say a few words regarding this information who wrote Father Tomislav
[...] Since its inception I have inserted the prayer group, led by Our Lady Jelena Vasilj and Father Tomislav Vlasic.
[...] I saw that the messages that came through Jelena clear and complete messages that Our Lady gave me.
Earlier this year I retired in silence with some people from that group prayer. One day, some time before departure, we prayed before the appearance of Our Lady to give us the light in order to understand the program that you had given through Father Tomislav Vlasic and Agnes Heupel.
Our Lady came, she was happy. She prayed over us and says: "Dear children, I give you a special gift, the gift of freedom so that I can decide for God bless the free decision of each of you." So I understood that I could make up my mind on this road since I was waiting for an opportunity to be able to withdraw in silence and prayer.
As you can see, the Madonna has made a program for the Community "Queen of Peace, totally Yours, Maria Jesus", and leads this community through Father Tomislav and Agnes, through which come messages for the Community.
am in the Community for over a month and a half ... "
[A call in the Marian, pp. 15-16]
In July 1988, however, the same Pavlovic retracted his own words in a statement released by a publication of the Curia of Mostar.
The letter shows that the false statements, published the brochure "A call in the Marian and signed by the same Pavlovic, were not made spontaneously by the alleged seer, but, as you said in the letter, were the result of persistent pressure from the friar Tomislav Vlasic.
Father Livio
the radio, we heard a different kind of Padre Livio: sad, embarrassed, obviously embarrassed at having to discuss a topic that has caused such a stir in recent days between faiths and none.
In a vain attempt to remove the shadow of the Vlasic Medjugorje phenomenon, the Fanzaga has claimed several times that he was the spiritual director of the alleged visionaries, perhaps in good faith, maybe not.
's strange, in fact, that a deep knowledge of the "phenomenon Medjugorje" has forgotten that the same "Lady" in the message of February 28, 1982 *** he told the six kids:
"Thank you so much is because Tomislav driving very well. Go in the peace of God, my angels! "
It is equally strange that he has forgotten that René Laurentin, in the section entitled" A new spiritual leader "of his book story and message of the apparitions of Medjugorje, wrote:" Tomislav [ ...] makes contact with the visionaries [...] It becomes the director spiritual "and this will keep the title in the parish."
Even stranger is the fact that Father Livio forgot to mention that Marija Pavlovic has been part of the community of Vlasic ...
*** Update: The
links to the posts of 1982 previously presented, has been purged of that of February 28, which until this morning was present.
The current link points to Medjugorje.eu site that contains a transcription of the book "Message of Mary in Medjugorje and pedagogy. Chronological collection of messages. Urgency of returning to God "by René Laurentin known Medjugorje always in favor of" Lady. " Here is a PDF copy of the original page and a screenshot with the message deleted in the past few hours.
PDF - The messages of Medjugorje - 1982
Other sites with the message:
Medjugorje.org
Medjugorje.eu - Messages from the book by René Laurentin (always pro-Medjugorje) "messages and the pedagogy of Maria Medjugorje. Chronological collection of messaggi.Urgenza back to God "
THE SITE:
http://abateoimpertinente.wordpress.com/2008/09/09/medjugorje-la-veggente-marija-pavlovic-ha-mentito-almeno- One-time /
http://gioidi79.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!4F5C16173653E28A!4263.entry 
Photo: Marija Pavlovic
25 March
Medjugorje visionary Marija Pavlovic has lied at least once
Marija Pavlovic
published on the website of Radio Maria, the letters written and signed by Marija Pavlovic and unequivocally demonstrate irrefutably that the self-styled seer has lied at least once attaches, under pressure Tomislav Vlasic, the so-called "Lady" blessing on the community, "Queen of Peace, founded by Franciscan, now suspended divinis, and his former girlfriend Agnes Heupel. In
clumsy attempt to eliminate any link between Pavlovic and Vlasic, Father Livio Fanzaga provided a valuable record that confirms what Marco Corvi had already published a month ago on his blog.
The letters (a manuscript, the other typed) refer to the statements that she released a pamphlet called the Marian year in which - Referring to the open letter of Tomislav Vlasic in which he wrote, "I posed a question to Madonna through Marija Pavlović. Marija has led the Lady's reply of 8 March 1987: "This plan of God" - the self-styled seer said:
"I feel I need to say a few words regarding this information who wrote Father Tomislav
[...] Since its inception I have inserted the prayer group, led by Our Lady Jelena Vasilj and Father Tomislav Vlasic.
[...] I saw that the messages that came through Jelena clear and complete messages that Our Lady gave me.
Earlier this year I retired in silence with some people from that group prayer. One day, some time before departure, we prayed before the appearance of Our Lady to give us the light in order to understand the program that you had given through Father Tomislav Vlasic and Agnes Heupel.
Our Lady came, she was happy. She prayed over us and says: "Dear children, I give you a special gift, the gift of freedom so that I can decide for God bless the free decision of each of you." So I understood that I could make up my mind on this road since I was waiting for an opportunity to be able to withdraw in silence and prayer.
As you can see, the Madonna has made a program for the Community "Queen of Peace, totally Yours, Maria Jesus", and leads this community through Father Tomislav and Agnes, through which come messages for the Community.
am in the Community for over a month and a half ... "
[A call in the Marian, pp. 15-16]
In July 1988, however, the same Pavlovic retracted his own words in a statement released by a publication of the Curia of Mostar.
The letter shows that the false statements, published the brochure "A call in the Marian and signed by the same Pavlovic, were not made spontaneously by the alleged seer, but, as you said in the letter, were the result of persistent pressure from the friar Tomislav Vlasic.
Father Livio
the radio, we heard a different kind of Padre Livio: sad, embarrassed, obviously embarrassed at having to discuss a topic that has caused such a stir in recent days between faiths and none.
In a vain attempt to remove the shadow of the Vlasic Medjugorje phenomenon, the Fanzaga has claimed several times that he was the spiritual director of the alleged visionaries, perhaps in good faith, maybe not.
's strange, in fact, that a deep knowledge of the "phenomenon Medjugorje" has forgotten that the same "Lady" in the message of February 28, 1982 *** he told the six kids:
"Thank you so much is because Tomislav driving very well. Go in the peace of God, my angels! "
It is equally strange that he has forgotten that René Laurentin, in the section entitled" A new spiritual leader "of his book story and message of the apparitions of Medjugorje, wrote:" Tomislav [ ...] makes contact with the visionaries [...] It becomes the director spiritual "and this will keep the title in the parish."
Even stranger is the fact that Father Livio forgot to mention that Marija Pavlovic has been part of the community of Vlasic ...
*** Update: The
links to the posts of 1982 previously presented, has been purged of that of February 28, which until this morning was present.
The current link points to Medjugorje.eu site that contains a transcription of the book "Message of Mary in Medjugorje and pedagogy. Chronological collection of messages. Urgency of returning to God "by René Laurentin known Medjugorje always in favor of" Lady. " Here is a PDF copy of the original page and a screenshot with the message deleted in the past few hours.
PDF - The messages of Medjugorje - 1982
Other sites with the message:
Medjugorje.org
Medjugorje.eu - Messages from the book by René Laurentin (always pro-Medjugorje) "messages and the pedagogy of Maria Medjugorje. Chronological collection of messaggi.Urgenza back to God "
THE SITE:
http://abateoimpertinente.wordpress.com/2008/09/09/medjugorje-la-veggente-marija-pavlovic-ha-mentito-almeno- One-time /
http://gioidi79.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!4F5C16173653E28A!4263.entry
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